My son and I really don't get along lately. I'm not around him much, I spend only a few hours a night with him and then most of the day on Saturdays. My mom watches him the rest of the time (and BD takes him Sundays until evening).
Today he will not listen to anything I say to him, he won't eat anything, he decided it would be a good idea to dump all of his toy boxes out and pretends he's hurt or can't get up when I tell him to pick it up. He tells me "no, I won't do it" to everything I ask him to do and he says "no, I won't stop" when I tell him to stop anything he shouldn't be doing (like climbing in the window to yell out to the neighbors kid who isn't even outside). Sounds like how kids behave with the "weekend-parent" right? And in our case, I do hardly see him so I know he doesn't see me as a disciplinary figure like my mom, but it's getting to the point where I am unable to control him at all. I feel powerless with him and he fully takes advantage of it.
I get so angry at him that I seriously contemplate letting my mom adopt him and not being a part of his life at all. I just don't know how to deal with him and think we might both be better off if I wasn't involved. The bad moments with him totally outweigh the good and even though I keep trying to make my time with him better, I always end up miserable and he ends up miserable because I spend the whole time yelling at him. It makes me want to spend even less time around him.
He's turning into such a violent, manipulative child. He's only 3, but he fits the criteria for oppositional deviance disorder. Whether he has it or not, I don't know, but it's really hard to be around him. Some of the things he does and says seem off to me. Like when he's told not to do something, he'll kick or throw whatever objects are near him. He also does little annoying things like hitting the back of the chair when someone is in it and when he's told to stop, he gets an evil look on his face and says he wants to cut the chair up with scissors. He'll give me a kiss and hug before I leave, but that's as far as his affection for me goes. Not once has he said he loves me after I say it to him and I'm starting to think he really doesn't.
I know it's a horrible thing to say, but he almost seems evil. My friends who have been around him say things like "I think he has ADHD" and my boyfriend thinks for sure that he has some kind of chemical imbalance. He was diagnosed with PDD-NOs when he was 2 which isn't really a diagnosis. I haven't taken him back for another eval and I really don't know if I should. I don't think I have the patience for all of this. I do love him and want what's best for him, but I don't know how much of my sanity I can sacrifice and it's wearing pretty thin.
When my mom is home and I'm there, he can actually be okay sometimes, but when she's not there, he turns into a completely different child.
I'm also worried about him and school. He's not enrolled in pre-school yet, but I don't know how he will act.
If for some reason my mom couldn't help with my son, I seriously don't know what I would do. I don't think I could handle it. I can't even handle being alone with him for 8 hours.
I really hope I don't offend you with this post, but I want to be honest about how it strikes me. It seems like you have a very negative perception of your child, as you said the bad times far outweigh the good and you see him as evil and manipulative at three years old. It seems to me that this is fairly normal behavior for a child who only knows how to get negative attention from you. The ways in which he is acting out is a sign that he is feeling hurt. If you seriously feel that at this point you need your mom to adopt your child and she is willing to do that, maybe that is what is best for you. You also might consider going to counseling by yourself and with him and taking parenting classes if you do want to remain in his life. I have felt very frustrated with my children before, kids get into all kinds of trouble and pull all kinds of different behaviors to get what they want, receive attention, or because they need something we aren't aware of. It is important to remember that they are just little children that need us. Good luck.
A lot of what you described is normal 3 year old behaviour.
Other than the evil look, you could be describing y 3 year old daughter here. She frequently threatens to throw things out or cut them up when she is angry, she throws toys whens she gets angry, etc. From my experience with younger kids, it's pretty common behaviour for kids that age.
My daughter is also quite manipulative. Just today, my SO and I were talking about how we don't always do what we should do with her for fear of her reaction. She's done a pretty good job of convincing us that we need to follow her rules. But, we have found that clear rules that we all understand, and consistent discipline have helped her have a sense of control, without us feel like she is controlling the situation.
For example, yesterday I took the kids to a children's festival. She got angry at me because I wouldn't buy her popcorn and hit me while we were waiting in line for an activity. I had originally said no popcorn, but I'm thinking of buying us all a drink. Well, after she hit me, I said I will not buy anything, she can have her water. I also told her that we would wait for her brother to do the activity, but she wouldn't be able to participate. She screamed until the activity was done. Normally, I woudl have given in and let her do the activity, or broke down and taken them to buy the drinks afterwards, just to get her to stop yelling. But, I didn't, and to my surprise, she calmed down as soon as she realised that I was serious.
Another example, bedtime is always a struggle with her trying to stall for time (I need to go pee, I need a book, etc) and us getting frustrated because we don't have 45 minutes to say goodnight to her. So, the other day I sat down with her and helped her figure out what she needed for bed (sippy cup of water, diaper, a book to read in bed, a story read to her, bathroom, brush teeth, etc). I did up a fancy page on the computer, printed it out and taped it to her wall. It's got her whole bedtime routine, right down to the number of kisses she gets. Just before we leave her room, we go down the list with her to see if we've done everything. Once everything's done, she knows she has nothing else to ask for, because all the needs that she herself identified have been met. Bedtime has been so peaceful the past couple of days.
You say your son shows you very little affection, does he show affection to your mom? Does he have autistic traits (which fall under PDD-NOs)? Because children with autism/spectrum disorders tend to have a hard time showing affection. Even if he does show more affection to your mom, she has been his primary caregiver on a regular basis, correct? It is often easier for a child with autism to bond with their primary caregiver, even when they can't bond with anyone else.
I think it might be helpful to have him further evaluated, although I understand that the whole process is extremely stressful and the end result may not prove productive. I think that if you are going to be able to form a good relationship with him, you need to understand where he is coming from, but that can be difficult if there is a PDD in the way and you don't know what behaviours to attribute to that, or what to do about those behaviours. Does your son have good verbal skills? Do you have speech and occupational therapy available to you?
I didn't find the therapy my (somewhat autistic) son went through very effective for him, but I was able to pick up on the way the occupational therapist related to him, which I then copied and for the first time in months was able to relate to my son.
Are there any child development centres/playgroups in your area that you are able to take him to? They tend to be a very positive enviroment that encourage positive interaction between parent and child, and for some reason changing the setting in which you are relating to your child can sometimes make a world of difference in your child's behaviour.
I know this is kind of long, but I hope that there is something in there that helps you out.
Ya know, it's funny, so many of the moms here need to 'take a break" when things get tough, but for working moms who don't get much time with their kids, the breaks are what make parenting so hard.
I wouldn't be so quick to diagnose him. if yur mom can control him, he is just testing authority.
When kids are unsure of a person or situation, they TEST. Babies test limits by touching things they shouldnt, toddler test parents by pushing behavior limits. "Will you still love me if . . .?"
It is my understanding that the treatment for ODD is "behavior modifaction" which is parenting tactics that most parents can practice from the beginning.
If I were you, I would examine how your mom handles him first. Does she discipline the way you think she should? What does he get away with when you're not home? What about BD? How does handle your son? And, if I remember correctly, you live with a partner who is not BD. What is his interaction?
Does BD have to take your son every sunday? Maybe you can change that to one weekend a month.
First off, I'm sorry girl. The whole situation sounds so rough.
I think that what you are experiencing is actually a personal thing with you. So much of the way you sound, frustrated, exshausted, rundown and irritated sound like the ways I felt when I was struggling personally. Whne I was going trough some heavy stuff, I was so irritated by my kids I didn't want to be around them at all, they made me instantly angry. In turn, they would feel this and become affcted by it. They would fight with each other, mess the house, refuse to listen and be outright defiant. The cycle was madness.
I felt like the worst parent ever and my kids were little brats. I would suggest some time for yourself to get a solid foundation. Maybe some counselling would help you to find peace with yourself. It sounds like you have a lot of guilt over your mothering experiences so far and you have internalized that and are carrying it around with you. Maybe it's time to gently let that go.
I could be way off base but either way, I wish you some peace and a solution to this for you. You're strong and you can push through this. Best of luck. PM me if you ever want to talk.
Hey everyone, I read and thought about everything each one of you said.
MamaButterfly, you're right about the negative perception. My time around other children my sons age is very limited, but when I am around them they seem less difficult. My boyfriend who is around him sometimes is always saying how my sons behaviors aren't normal and other kids aren't like him and it gets to me, at first I kept saying he's like other kids, but now I've started to believe it. He says my son gets a weird spaced off look sometimes and says/does things repeatedly and is turning violent all the time are obvious signs that something is wrong with him and apparently he thinks he's the expert because he's been around a lot of young children...so he claims.
Believe me, it helps to hear the other children around the same age behave in similar ways. I was really starting to think he was completely different.
My son does show more affection to my mom, but not too much. He's never been the type to cuddle since he was old enough to wiggle out of an adults arms. He will sit close to her and lean on her and he is very very attached to her, but he doesn't like snuggling or being held.
At his eval at 2, the psych was sure he didn't have autism although yes, he does have some traits.
BCPR, I think a lot of it is him testing my authority. My mom can control him a lot better than I can, but she also struggles with getting him to eat. He still talks back to her, sometimes he hits/kicks her too. I'm not around much, but when I am and see my mom discipline him she sometimes sends him to sit on the floor at the end of the hall or she'll take things away/not reward with something he wants and I agree with those methods. I really don't know how BD handles my son, he usually takes him out places and he says he behaves most of the time.
I think it's good for him to spend time with BD. He should and wants to spend more time with him, but right now his work schedule makes that difficult.
As for my boyfriend, he now has two jobs and only stays over a few nights and comes home late. He's not around my son much now, but he treats my son well and gives him lots of attention. My son really likes him.
Candy-eyed, I think so much of this is a personal thing. I struggle with envying the freedom of all of my friends (all of them are childless), I'm busy with work and school and there are a lot of things on my mind. I do have tons of guilt about my experiences with motherhood and especially from when I had PPD. I've been through counseling and treated for depression and it helped me in so many other ways, but I've continued to struggle with motherhood. I'm not depressed now, though it may seem that way, but I do definitely have some issues that I've never completely worked out.
I had a long talk with my mom when she came home from work and I told her pretty much the same thing I posted here. She actually said some of the same things you all have mentioned like him testing authority with me and that his behavior isn't that uncommon for kids his age. She's like "haven't you ever seen those Nanny shows? some of those kids behave like him or worse". She gave me some tips on how she handles his behavior and encouraged me to not take things he does personally (which I do).
Thanks everyone and I'm not going to give up. I will try, hard as it is, to be patient and learn to handle his behaviors and not look at it it as "he's just evil", but that he's behaving that way because he wants to see what I'll let him get away with and his behavior can change.
this post is why girlmom exists. Its one of those moments when I'm reading and thinking- if not here where?. I hope all goes well with you Suzaan and that you keep it up, you care enough to be a part of a site like this, to ask us for ideas and to think about the answers- that's amazing parenting. I've been there, to the point where I wanted to quit so bad, and the only advice I have is that maybe some new friends with babies and a new BF who doesn't talk badly about your kid. Its hard though...I'm still looking for another single girlmama in my area. Good luck mama.
sounds like my son to a point. my son is three and he goes to school three days a week, and the other days hes attached. he drives me nuts and it seems like he doesnt listen to me either...he says te same thing your son says. i think it might be his way of dealing with what little time he has with you. (which nothing wrong there) ive heard every child reacts differently or it might just be becasue of his age. they become defiant and stubborn and independant
i mean this with love. Please believe that I've been in your shoes before. have you considered the idea that he mgiht be mad at you?
Let me tell you a little of my story so you don't think that i'm judging you from the outside. My son and I became homelss for a while. We were living in a shelter and his dad asked if he could take him until I got on my feet. I said OK. I hated the daycare there and knew Ivy would be happier someplace else, unitl i could get daycare assistance. Well that "break" to get my life in order just kept streatching itself out. I got an appartment that was supposed to be for us. then i started school and decided that it would be a great investemnt in our future if i took the semester to get situated, find a good daycare, get a cat and some toys for him. Ths whole time i was seeing him weekends and sometimes for a week at a time. It broke my heart to think of all that I was missing but my focus was on so many other things that I thought I "had to" be working towards these goals other people had for me (school etc.) The little "break" ended up lasting a year. by that time i wasn't my son's "mom" and he was pissed. he hit me sometimes and didn't want to listen to a thing i said. I'd ask him to do something four or five times and he's jump up to do it the second annother adult or older child asked him to. he had a right to be pissed. he knew i was his mom and he knew i wasn't there.
in the end i had to do what was right for my family. i quit school and got a job. i'll make it back someday but now just isn't the time. i have an OK job but have made the decision that we need to be "poor" right now if it means that we can be together. slowly, my son's behaviour has improved, he's begun to see me as an athourity figure, and he loves to play games with me. we're getting very close again and i think that our relationship will continue to grow.
I guess what i'm saying is that when i was in your position i had to ask myself some tough questions. when he didn't respect me as an athourity figure i had to ask myself why the hell he would. when he hit me and didn't want to sit on my lap sometimes i had to ask myself what he was trying to express. when i realised he was only this angry child with me i had to understad that there wasn't anything wrong with him. he was just angry with me.
i'm at work now and typing a mile a minute so this may not make alot of sense. you can PM me if you like or we can keep it in this thread. i jsut thought i'd throw a little of my experience out there because i can relate to your situation.
thebarkingbird, you make total sense. I've always thought he was mad at me and from my psych studies I totally know that there are attachment/trust issues because of my absences. On one hand I rationalize my feelings because when I'm home from work/school I'm usually tired and my patience is barely existant, I feel like it's easier to let my mom handle him than for me to and be grouchy and snappy at him.
I have a lot to work on, but reading these posts has helped enormously and made me rethink a lot of my feelings and the way I perceive my sons actions. I keep thinking about what you all have said and I don't take it as judgement at all. This is what this place is for! I needed to get this out and I'm not close to any mothers in real life, so this felt like the only place I could explain my situation and know that those reading it would have the insight and experience to respond in the way I needed.
Despite the misguided things my boyfriend says about my son, he really cares about him and when he's with him he's great with him. He never says those things around him. It's wrong for him to say the things he says about my son and not to excuse it but I can see where his concerns are coming from because he had behavioral and developmental problems as a young child and also, he was raised by his grandma because his mom and dad worked literally all day.
have you thought of taking a break from school? what about cutting back to part time or seeing if you can get into adult education classes that most universaties hold on saturdays for credit. i really thought it would kill me to do that. in the end, it was what worked for us. i'm looking into going back when he is in pre k (that's two years from now) or doing it sooner if i can find a way to only work part time. I truly am in support of single mammas everywhere who wanto to get an education, it's just that i've come to see so many other things as equally important in my life. forgive me if i'm projecting a bit much of my situation onto yours i just see so much of my life in your words. i know what it's like to be smart and passionate and have dreams and have a kid.
I can't do part-time at my job, it's a full-time position and it's either full-time or nothing. I've been at this job for almost 2 years and I've worked up to my current pay. I have great benefits and a great boss who is good about letting me miss time for sick days, doctors appointments, and he et me work some of my hours around school. I need the pay I'm getting now so that I can pay bills.
As for college, last semester was my first time taking any courses since high school and I'm 23. I already feel way behind schoolwise and my current income is barely enough to get us by (and that's with my boyfriend helping with half the rent and other expenses). I feel really good about going to school and I want to finish as soon as possible because I can't see us surving long on the income I'm getting now.
At this point I don't feel I could take a break from school or work less, but my son turns 4 this year and it won't be long before he's in pre-school so I think it will be okay. I'm only taking one night class in the fall and right now I'm not taking any summer classes so I'll be around at night most of the time.
Sorry I'm replying to this so late. :oops: I just wanted to comment and say I feel like I could have written your post myself. My daughter barely sees me, when I'm not working, I'm at school and when I'm not at school or work, it's night time and I'm asleep or out. When I do see her she constantly pushes me away, saying she doesn't like me and doesn't want to see me. I wish I had more helpful advice, but since my daughter is a year younger then yours, I don't have any. :\ I'm sorry for all that's going on momma.
Hey Suzaan... I just want to say that I'm thinking about you and your son. It sounds like you're juggling a whole lot, and it's tough when getting along with your son is such a challenge.
You mentioned that you felt your son had attachment/trust issues. That's what I was thinking too when I read your first post. You said that he's already had a psych eval- have they made any recommondations? Can you find some family therapy for your son and yourself? Anything that could help the two of you relate better, and rebuild that bond would help a whole lot.
It sounds like you're thinking about this from every possible angle, and that you're working really hard to do the right thing for your futures. I wish you lots of love and strenght.