its kind of a long article, but try to read as much of it as you can and let us all know what you think. there are a lot of interesting points brought up and its really interesting to see what people can pull out of this. i have quite a few strong opinions myself, but i thought i'd spare you all that rant and just post the article for now. here it is:
MADRID. (Reuters) - The world's first ban on overly thin models at a top-level fashion show in Madrid has caused outrage among modeling agencies and raised the prospect of restrictions at other catwalk pageants.
Madrid's fashion week has turned away underweight models after protests that young girls and women were trying to copy their rail-thin looks and developing eating disorders.
Organizers say they want to project an image of beauty and health, rather than a waif-like, or heroin chic look.
But Cathy Gould, of New York's Elite modeling agency, said the fashion industry was being used as a scapegoat for illnesses like anorexia and bulimia.
"I think its outrageous, I understand they want to set this tone of healthy beautiful women, but what about discrimination against the model and what about the freedom of the designer," said Gould, Elite's North America director, adding that the move could harm careers of naturally "gazelle-like" models.
Madrid's regional government, which sponsors the show and imposed restrictions, said it did not blame designers and models for anorexia. It said the fashion industry had a responsibility to portray healthy body images.
"Fashion is a mirror and many teenagers imitate what they see on the catwalk," said regional official Concha Guerra.
The mayor of Milan, Italy, Letizia Moratti told an Italian newspaper this week she would seek a similar ban for her city's show unless it could find a solution to "sick" looking models.
QUALITY, NOT SIZE
The Madrid show is using the body mass index or BMI -- based on weight and height -- to measure models. It has turned away 30 percent of women who took part in the previous event. Medics will be on hand at the September 18-22 show to check models.
Under the Madrid ruling, models must have a BMI rating of around 18. That would disqualify top Spanish model Esther Canadas, and supermodels like Kate Moss, based on unofficial records of their height and weight.
"The restrictions could be quite a shock to the fashion world at the beginning, but I'm sure it's important as far as health is concerned," said Leonor Perez Pita, director of Madrid's show, also known as the Pasarela Cibeles.
When asked if they supported controls, seven Spanish designers showing at Madrid either declined to comment or said they did not want to become involved in the controversy. Designers in Milan gave a similar response.
A spokeswoman for the Association of Fashion Designers of Spain, which represents those at Madrid fashion week, said the group supported restrictions and its concern was the quality of collections, not the size of models.
Eating disorder activists said many Spanish model agencies and designers oppose the ban and they had doubts whether the new rules would be followed.
"If they don't go along with it the next step is to seek legislation, just like with tobacco," said Carmen Gonzalez of Spain's Association in Defense of Attention for Anorexia and Bulimia, which has campaigned for restrictions since the 1990s.
Elite's Gould said fashion was not to blame for eating disorders that usually started at home due to poor eating habits and constant dieting by mothers.
So far, Madrid's move has yet to spark a worldwide trend toward catwalk shows with curvier figures.
London Fashion Week said in a statement it would not put restrictions on what type of models its designers use. Madrid's fashion week has turned away underweight models after protests that young girls and women were trying to copy their rail-thin looks and developing eating disorders.
Organizers say they want to project an image of beauty and health, rather than a waif-like, or heroin chic look.
But Cathy Gould, of New York's Elite modeling agency, said the fashion industry was being used as a scapegoat for illnesses like anorexia and bulimia.
"I think its outrageous, I understand they want to set this tone of healthy beautiful women, but what about discrimination against the model and what about the freedom of the designer," said Gould, Elite's North America director, adding that the move could harm careers of naturally "gazelle-like" models.
Madrid's regional government, which sponsors the show and imposed restrictions, said it did not blame designers and models for anorexia. It said the fashion industry had a responsibility to portray healthy body images.
"Fashion is a mirror and many teenagers imitate what they see on the catwalk," said regional official Concha Guerra.
The mayor of Milan, Italy, Letizia Moratti told an Italian newspaper this week she would seek a similar ban for her city's show unless it could find a solution to "sick" looking models.
Source: Yahoo
I actually really like the idea of this. I do think the media needs to take more responsibilitie for what they are portraying. I personally find body image to be a huge issue and I would emagine it would be the same in all parts of the world that have TV and magazines. Tons woman suffer and torture themselves emotionally and physically partially because of the images they see which influence there self image.We all know this just from growing up and speaking with the girls and woman we know in daily life. The fashion industry is by no means completely at fault. There are many reasons why a woman would have an eating disorder. But if we look though the history of the developed countries in the world back even only 100 years, eating disorders in woman grew exponentially as "skinny" models became the norm. There is a connection there. When a society is plagued with a health issue all who it may stem from need to step up and recognise this and take responsibility.
Simply stated I see this as"eating disorders are often fatal. Eating disorders are on the rise. The fashion industry contributes to this. How can the fashion industry remidy that? How can the fashion industry opperate responsibly toward it's viewers".
How is this different and how is this the same as other issues. Should there be laws for what poisons the mind of people? is that a health issue? Smoking puts toxins into the body. Do certain images put toxins into the mind? There are laws and restirctions and lables all over tabaccoo. There are restrictions on alcohal. There are even age restrictions on what ages you can buy certain video games and CD's. Should there be laws on what is the normal human image in our media? Should there be disclaimers all over our ads and tv shows and magazines?
I guess I don't understand what the controversy is? Why are models and designers against having healthy body weight become the norm in this industry? I mean, isn't an 18 BMI count in a 5'8 tall woman still around the 90 lb mark? How tall/skinny is the average modle?
I think this idea is awesome. I've seen some really horrifying pictures of what women do to themselves in the name of fashion, women looking like holocaust victims with makeup artists working on them like there's nothing wrong here. I hope it takes wind all over, and a healthier body image becomes the new chic.
I don't blame the models or designers (Well, maybe the designers a bit. When asked a couple years ago how bigger women would fit into his designs, Calvin Klein responded "diet.")
While I agree with the intention of the ban, I actually don't like the ban itself. The problem with the fashion industry isn't that it has very thin women, but rather that it overwhelmingly has very thin women. This article portrays very thin women as sick and unhealthy repeatedly, and that bothered me. I would rather see us moving towards celebrating all body types rather than associating thinness with sickness.
Fashion show I'd like to see: where the average height and weight of the models is around that of the averages for the country in which they are having the show. In the US for women, that'd be 5'4" and 145lbs.
Well, the concept is a good one. All models being ultra thin isn't good for anyone's self esteem. But, I just don't see why it always has to be a black and white good vs bad thing. Usually, it's skinny = good, but in this case, it's super skinny = bad. Neither is right. I think rather than focusing on the fact that models have to be below a certain size or above a certain size, fashion shows/magazines/movies/television,etc.should be more focused on making sure a variety of body types are represented. I don't understand why fashion always has to be so exclusionary. Rather than including everybody, somebody has to be purposely left out.
The way I'm looking at it is this. It has to start SOMEwhere. We have to get it out of people's heads that you have to practically starve yourself to be pretty. Elizabeth Hurley said of Marilyn Monroe (who was a size 12-14, I don't quite remember) that if she was ever that "fat" she'd kill herself. Cortney Cox was quoted saying that "in order to make the bottom part look right, sometimes your face has to be a little gaunt." And Renee Zellweger was a size 12 for Bridget Jones and said that's how she "balloons up" when she eats 3 meals a day. She started eating like a regular human being, and became her regular size, then starves herself down to whatever she is right now.
If that's the size you are normally, that's one thing. But what's going on in the media is NOT normal. As evident by Zellweger, a lot of the girls that size often aren't eating normally, aren't keeping themselves healthy. Just thin. And breaking down this thought process of 0 being the new 6 has to start somewhere.
When you've got women saying they'd rather be dead than fat, that gaunt, obviously unhealthy looking faces are the only way their bodies "look right" we've got a huge, HUGE problem. And people may not like what went on in Madrid, but it's got to start somewhere. And it's got to start with a controversy that will grab media attention so people will sit up and look with their eyes and their heads and see this is WRONG. What's being done to celebrities is wrong, what's being done to young girls and women is wrong. And in order to stop it from happening, you have to start somewhere.
I agree completely with boigrrlwonder. This ban is going to result in a show with all the models having a BMI of 18.1 instead of 17. I think they should concentrate on the average, where you can have models of all sizes but that the average should be similar to the real average woman.
Actually, no, for a 5'8" woman to have a BMI of 18 she must weigh 119 pounds. I would actually be excluded from the show, and I have never been on a diet in my life, this is my natural body shape.
I think it's unrealistic. It's one place that's imposing the ban, I doubt other countries will follow, especially places that are known for their involvement in high fashion, such as milan, the US, whatever. The designers will just go to places that don't impose the ban.
Also it puts the onus of EDs directly on designers or models, which isn't true. It's so easy to say that the thinner models get that the rates of EDs soar, but to do so is to ignore all the other 'soars' that have been happening that could contribute, so by putting it directly on the fashion industry it completely ignores other problems which could be root causes.
The US as a whole has been leading more and more unhealthy lifestyles in the past few years, rates of obesity and inactivity has risen, for one example. Also, more teenagers look to singers and actors as role models, not many are so into fashion as they were in the days of Kate Moss. There are not many household name models any more. People like Nicole Richie, Paris Hilton, Ashlee Simpson, Hilary Duff.. these people are the ones looked up on as role models for a younger generation, you ask the girls in Junior High and they all know their names, but I bet you they couldn't tell you who Gemma Ward, Heather Marks, Lisa Cant are. They don't sit around and watch Fashion TV and want to look like those girls, they watch regular TV, where most of the actresses are very underweight. Look at Hilary Duff, she's one of the biggest role models for younger girls right now, and she's gone from a nice curvy figure, to gaunt.
Plus the fact that "heroin chic" was cool in the fashion industry back in the 90s, with models like Kate Moss starting it off. I'm not saying models still aren't very thin, but they're looking more healthy now then they have in years. One of my favorite friends, who has modelled internationally for some of the biggest designers, has been turned away from jobs during periods where she was too thin. Told to gain weight, get some thighs, because thighs are "in". She would have been top of her game back in the heroin chic days, but she's not now and has to work hard to gain weight and muscle in order to get jobs these days.
Heather Marks is one of the top super models out there, and she's got abs, defined leg muscle, larger hips. The trend of the fashion industry is going towards more healthy looking women, although I doubt they'll ever move towards the average size of US women.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing to point it out, but really it's a bandaid solution for a much bigger problem, so many things need to be changed with today's society. I'd rather see a country put together a program to help prevent EDs and treat those who already have them, a crisis phone line, group programs, whatever, then the reactionary stance of banning thin models. There are too many things that can trigger an ED, that to put the focus on "oh, well it's because models are thin" and only on that, that other root problems will go unaddressed, and nothing will be solved.
Also I find the comparison to holocaust victims a little wrong. The survivors of such an event should not have their personal genocide used as a comparison, it reeks of using the word 'raped' to define being cheated, or using 'nazi' to define someone with a strong stance.
Word to that.
naivete, I'm a little surprised at that sentiment. That's the mindset a lot of people use about opression and other things. Why boycott? Somebody else will buy the product anyway. Why not sell slave labor products? If you don't, they'll just go somewhere else and buy it. Why not let underage kids drink in your house? They'll just go somewhere else where they can.
Why have the ban? Because stopping unhealthy body image has to start somewhere. Just like one mama not shopping at an oppressive establishment doesn't do much, maybe other people will follow and everyone has to do their part. Maybe Madrid doesn't look like much, but everything has to have a start.
And no, the problem isn't on just the fashion industry. The problem is with media as a whole. But the problem isn't going to get fixed until someone does something about it. Whether it be the music industry, television, movies, or fashion.
And I don't think the holocaust comparison is as trite as you're making it out to be. What it means is that an image which should strike sadness and rememberance of suffering, is now an acceptable image for a person. It's a "look" for a LOT of women. It's gone from being a horrifying, sad, tear stained image to something actually strived for, and deemed acceptable for a woman to do to herself.
Ugh....
The ban sucks. I don't like the idea of it at all.
And also, 18 really isn't that small. My BMI is around 18 and I am nowhere near being "anorexic" or "rail-thin".
I also HIGHLYYYYY doubt that Marilyn Monroe was a size 12, for what a size 12 is right now. She looks more like a size 6 or 8.
Erika - It's been shown time and time again that Size 12 back then did not equal size 12 now. Back then a size 12 was, as you guessed, a size 6. So even though she was slightly larger with today's ideals, she was still pretty small.
Naivete-I know, someone else mentioned her above and said 12-14, which is not possible unless she's about 7 feet tall.
Probably even taller! I'm totally picturing a gargantuan Monroe taking over NYC godzilla style now.
Why do models have to be "gazelle-like" for fasion in the first place? I don't understand why models can't be healthy beautiful women and the designers can't design their clothes to fit their bodies. She obviously does not understand that promoting the "gazelle-like" body type does more discrimination to women all around the world than this "outrageous" ban.
oops! I obviously messed that one up!
The quote is at the top and my response is at the bottom :oops:
I'm sick of this judgement. I know from experience, most models do NOT have EDs, despite what outsiders would like to believe. The designers choose girls who are naturally like this, the girls who were made fun of in school for being so tall and stick-like, you know it DOES occur naturally. Most agencies and designers do not want models with EDs, because anorexia:
- makes your hair fall out
- puts fur on your body
- makes you break out in pimples
- gives you a really unhealthy look, with a weirdly tinted face, bags under the eyes, sunken cheeks
- have absolutely no muscle definition, which is important with modelling, to have at least some thigh muscle, ass muscle, so everything is firm and in place and not drooping (anorexia eats your muscles first.)
- to have no energy to keep up with photoshoots, runway, events.
Most ED'd women will not succeed in the industry because they do not look healthy/glowing, they do not have any muscle, and most importantly they will not have the energy to perform, no matter what you think, it's a strenuous job, which you just cannot do if you're fainting all over. Designers don't want a model who will faint on the runway, or who won't have the energy to perform up to the level they need them to.
The model friends I have? They eat well, they eat incredibly healthily too, fruit, vegetables, nuts, yogurt, rice. They work out about an hour a day to make sure they're toned. They HAVE to keep that up, because malnutrition will show in your skin and your hair.
And you know what? They're all sick of everyone sitting there calling them down, insinuating that their starving barbies, all because of their job. Many of them ARE naturally like that, and the ones who aren't, won't last long in the industry because they won't have the energy to do the job. I don't know if this stereotype that they're all starving and with ED's comes from concern or because people just really don't want to believe that yes, some people are naturally like this, it's just so much easier to call them down, right? Like Erika said, she's one of the healthiest people I know, and she's naturally a 0 after having twins, you know it happens, and it's not that uncommon, especially if you ensure you have a healthy active lifestyle. And it gets really tiresome to have people (feminists especially) either cut you down because of your job, or insinuate meanly that you have a disease for how you naturally are.
It's much easier to design for rail-thin models.
The clothes need to look good on the runway, which means the fit needs to be perfection.
It's hard for me to imagine a deisgner having to design clothing for someone average size and be able to get that perfect fit on curvy bodies.
Designers send their clothes down the runway in hopes (for the most part) of having a distributor pick them up (Nordstroms, etc).
If they do, it is then that "fit" models are brought in so the designs can be replicated for the masses. A fit model is generaly a perfect size 8 for women's clothing and then they just go up and down inches for different sizes.
I'm not fatphobic at all, I've got curves like whoa, but you have to be honest and think about what would be more appealing to your eye as a merchandiser in the fashion industry. A 5'4 size 12, or a 5'9 size 4?
Because contrary to popular beliefe it is not about the model so much as it is the clothing, so it better hang well.
And, hey, in highschool I was a size 4 and I am 5'9 and believe me I was not underfed.
many people who have eating disorders work hard to convince themselves, and everyone else, that they don't. that really, its everyone elses problem.
i see that going on a lot. i'm frustrated. it changes the entire tone of a community.
oh well.
I think that was really uncalled for.
Is this the way we are playing now?
Let's call people out in an open forum on personal issues?
Nice.
in regards to the rest of your comment, I'm so so sorry if a woman with a disease inconveniences you. Check yourself rebex. Other peoples personal struggles are NOT yours to announce or exploit.
I'm "rail-thin" naturally, and I think the ban is cool.
No, I don't think it'll save the world, but I think that anyone making the difficult decision not to partake in the creation and preservation of oppressive norms is doing something good.
And I think choosing a body type that most women can't attain by normal means and using it as the symbol for beauty, elegance, and grace, is oppressive.
i'm sorry. i think its a hard line to figure out how to support women struggling with eating disorders while being a body positive site.
we all struggle thru this world & deal with shitty body image issues. i read these comments last night & felt a hundred times worse about myself. & the only way i could rationalize this thread was realizing that other women on this site were expressing their own disorderedness without realizing it.
i'm bowing out. apologies.
So the only way you could rationalize it was to lash out at other women who may deal a lot harder with it? GM may be body positive, which is fucking important, but it's also a feminist website that doesn't, or shouldn't cut down women with addictions or diseases in ANY context. No one is saying give tips on purging, but don't fling a disease in peoples faces as if you have a right to.
I wonder why "body positive" has to mean acceptance of poor health and lifestyle choices. This goes for BOTH ends of the spectrum.
To me, it's "body positive" to care about your body and what you put into it (eating healthy) and it's "body positive" to get regular exercise. Why is it that it's okay to criticize thinness, but saying "well you know, it's not really very healthy to be obese" (which is true) is not okay? It's like the big pig elephant in threads like this. Why does being cautious and conscious about what you put into your body mean that you must have an ED? I think it should be normal to be conscious of the things you eat, because what you put inside will show on the outside. I don't think everyone needs to be a size 0 or look like me or be like me. I do think it is detrimental to a person's health to be eating foods that aren't healthy and to be excessively overweight...this is unhealthinessphobia, not fatphobia...just like it is detrimental to a person's health to smoke, or do drugs, or whatever else.
No one should need to criticize or demean the opposite end of the spectrum to feel better about themself, or make snide defensive comments. That is an immature way to deal with any issue...personal or political or both.
Working to be a better person, a healthier person, and a stronger person can be accomplished without insinuating negatives upon others. It takes a bigger person to admit that they have some issue that could be improved upon, rather than to make excuses for whatever issue and blame it on society. This is not to deny that societal influences are prominent in our daily lives. No one is perfect, but I think everyone eventually needs to get to the point where they can take responsibility and make strides to improve and succeed.
i agree with you erika.