where do we draw the line?

I just try not to piss off anyone at all. lol
I have noticed what youre talking about.....
maybe its the stress of the holidays! :D
either way, I think this topic is either good for discussion or going to make it worse :P

well, i dont usually call people out but latley i have cause i havent seen too much action and as a member i felt okay fine ill take an iniciative.

ive actually talked to some mods about the issues and well they have told me that certain calling out is ok especially because some of the mods dont have the time to be around all the time.

ive recently called out a few people for a few specific things. mission statement and anti-choice language.

just cause i dont have a site admin under my name doesnt mean i cant protect my safe space. IMO

Personally, I only call people out when I feel really strongly about the issue. Even then, I let things slide and don't bother, because I don't want it to seem like I have a grudge, or am just being "nitpicky". But, I don't call people out because it's fun, or I like drama, or anything like that (in fact I hate it, and avoid confontation as much as possible both in real life and online). I call people out because I'm genuinely offended,or they are saying/doing something that is againstthe site's mission statement/policies, or I am reasonably sure that someone else willbe offended by it.

(One thing that I feel very strongly about, and almost never mention, because it seems to do no good, is using ableist terms like "insane" or "crazy" lightly)

I think it is good that we are all watchdogs. It is too much responsibility to place on the site admins who are just as busy if not busier than the next person. It would be unrealistic to say that only mods will take care of these issues.

I personally would not say that the recent activity was uncalled for. It just seems like the timing was unusual to have a few of these issues crop up at the same time. Like Kelly, I think it is important to nip those things in the butt asap, when they involve anti-choice language or other sensitive/offensive things, like the blantant disregard and overt disagreement with the mission statement.

I think it seems like there is more of a "ganging up" when a limited amount of members are willing to take the initiative to confront the issue. As others have posted, they are not comfortable doing that and do not want to rock the boat. In my opinion, this site is all about rocking the boat because we rarely grow and change if we never take risks.

Great statement! well put. sometimes i suck at words and can never say exactly what i mean or how i feel.

We, as learners and educators have an obligation to "call out" language, behaviour, or actions that are potentially hurtful, dangerous, racist, marginalizing or otherwise derogatory.

If we do not question we cannot learn.

I haven't seen many actually mean callouts, for the most part it's done very respectfully, and how the person chooses to deal with that is their own choice, and a lot of the ones who are 'scared away', do end up thinking on their own and coming back better educated and more willing to learn.

I think callouts are important, it's what separates us from more aggravating boards where peoples feelings come in second. We work to protect the feelings of other members who may be hurt by it, and we do that by gently reminding what is and what is not okay to say here.

I have done wuite a bit of calling out recently and I feel as if all of it was necessary. I let things slide if I read the post and see that someone probably didnt know or didnt mean to say something like that, but anything negative about abortion and anti choice language needs to be handled and if I happen to see it before a mod does I will speak up. It is in the mission statement and if you are blatently posting mean things then you need to be called out by whoever reads the post first.

to the girl who said she was offended by words like 'crazy'. I know your nick but I forget how to spell it...hehe sorry
umm I was wondering if you meant that as in, youre offended by my name?

thank you so fucking much pam. i think the mods get no credit and in this situation are basically being told we don't do our jobs. which hurts like hell. thank you for giving us the credit we deserve.

I'm not offended by your name, as I have no idea the context behind it.

I think it's crazy that people could do that
This might sound insane
It's insane how much I like this

All of those bother me. Insane and crazy both refer to mental health issues,and they should not be taken lightly. Just like using lame asa descriptive word is ableist,so are these.

Even more than blatant antichoice language (which often can be attributed to just ignorance of the subject or buying what's been spoonfed to you by others) I really HATE the borderline anti "prochoice, BUT" type of stuff. It ticks me off so badly I can't even describe it. When I see things like that, sometimes I can't even respond for DAYS I get so upset. I just form and reform replies in my head because otherwise I just want to come in here like "THAT'S EFFING STUPID, YOU ARE SO RIDICULOUS AND INSENSITIVE!"

Aaaand, that doesn't help anyone. With religious based opinion or blatant ignorance as the reason they're anti, that can be dealt with and usually pretty quickly with a "hey, watch your language." However, the 'prochoice, but' situations are usually a lot more touchy, and people get a lot more defensive about their stances. Those are the ones I find most guilty of applying a moral hierarchy, and those are the ones that rarely even recognize it.

I know what you are saying about those qualifiers that get attached to what looks like pro-choice support... with that being said, many of us have been there and it is only possible to unlearn the implications of doing this by having it pointed out (being called out) in an effective, respectful way.

the trick of the internet (major downfall, really) is that there is no tone, no diction, facial expression, etc- none of that non-verbal communication we all use to understand the full meaning of someone's words (unless you count the ridiculous "emoticons"- which by the way, I use all the time... :) ) My point is, it is hard to tell the intent behind a person's anti-choice statement. it could be coming from misinformation, ignorance, or a myriad of other motives... yet, the person could honestly be trying to learn, understand, grow, and test out these new ideas, thoughts, and issues as they become prevalent in their lives. (i.e.-pro-choice position could have recently began to sway them, they may have been newly introduced to it, etc.)

certainly, i am NOT saying we should tolerate anti-choice comments of ANY king, regardless of the motivation/implication. i think it's just something to keep in mind when we take that step to actually call out. maybe people would be less afraid to do so, if these call outs were of a different tone. and to be honest- as of lately, i really have seen some of the most casual, informal, nonchalant call-outs, that were well deserved, and were generally received quite well (of course, exceptions will always exist, unfortunately they also persist in our memories...)

when it comes down to it, though, nobody is perfect and we can't have perfect call-outs 100% of the time- because we are all people, not machines- but there is nearly always room for improvement, imo.

also, I think for a lot of longer time members, we need to remember to view gm from the outside, we might get comfortable with eachother and start slipping up, but we need to keep in mind that new people don't know who of us knows whom..

one thing about calling out that drives me insane is when a ton of different people call someone out for the same thing!!!!!!!!!! like, say someone makes a statement they are not allowed to on the site, then there are 6 or 7 responses and almost every single one of them is "read the mission statement" or "you cant say that" ect.......... i just think someone only needs to be called out once, it makes the poster feel ganged up on, and it takes away from the topic when you are trying to read about the topic posted and its all jjust ppl calling someone out instead.

Hey Katie, I just want to mention that Canadianmamma just posted upthread about how she doesn't like people using "insane" in everyday language.

Anyways, Canadianmamma, I would actually prefer to be called out if I was ever seen using those words offensively. They have become so commonplace in everyday life that I think if someone didn't point it out, no one would even realize they had said it.

Also, I do have one idea. I wonder if an FAQ with common newbie questions would be helpful. Like, if it said:

"Why can't I put a ticker in my signature describing how my baby is developing?"

Those tickers can be hurtful to....etc etc etc

And then if someone said something offensive, or didn't understand, they could be linked to the FAQ that clearly spells it out.

I think a lot of times the reason 2 or more people call a person out at once is because they each have a different way of explaining their reasoning. If we included ALL of the reasons in one Q&A, then there would only be the need for one post.

This could be a fairly idealistic idea though, as I know it would take a lot of time and work. If everyone agrees that it's a good idea, maybe we could have a collective of people (1 question per person or something) so that no one is overburdened. And , unless a mod really wants to participate, I don't think you all should do anything except maybe approve the finished product.

i think that is totally a great idea. it puts everything in written words and stickys so people see it point blank.

but just like the mission statement some girls probablly dont read through the whole thing and maybe thats why they "slip up" but i think that when you join ANY new site you NEED to read statements.

heres the answer to your ticker question.

http://www.girl-mom.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=158666#158666

we really haven't had to deal with it as much as we did in the past. but its agreed that it is a good idea.

thanks :)

At another board I go to, you have to fill out an application. You can only see an information section of the board until you're approved, and then you get access to the main boards. The app makes sure you have an understanding of the mission statement because it asks you specifically about it.

If this board were to follow that, it would also cut back on the amount of advertising threads we get, as well as boost privacy because people we know IRL wouldn't be able to see the boards unless they joined.

But there's a problem with that in itself considering the aim of the site, because how many young mums would be intimidated? A good majority of us members lurked way before we felt comfortable enough to join and start posting.

(in regards to that site, the app is still pretty confidential in itself, as only us mods can see them and approve them, it's not like posted up for every member to see)

how would it work then for the people who lurk here? they probably wouldn't have access to the full site either, and i think that would be a huge disservice. i'd like to think that we help a lot of people who come here, yet we'll never know their names.

But it could also get more people to come out in the open and let us get to know them, or they can apply and still lurk once they've applied if they're uncomfortable, right? If a mod were the only one to see their app, they could still have a veil of privacy, it's not forcing them to start chatting it up.