if so many of us are bisexual, how come we're all with men?
(the "us" and "we" are general, btw.)
so in my several years of girlmom and being online in general it seems that a lot of us have an attraction to women, maybe more than just wanting to sleep with one, but few of us ever act on that. why is this?
one of the things that seems to be less accessible to women who bear children younger is a chance to explore our sexuality in a safe environment without repercussions. do you think it's okay to live life not having explored that part of ourselves? I know a lot of women who are partnered with men they probably wouldn't be with were it not for the kids. it's not that they are miserable or even unhappy, it's just that, by their own admission, they weren't "done yet."
I see traces of that in myself as well. If someone had proposed to me while I was pregnant, I would have said yes. I would have regarded delving into my sexuality as something that would have been nice, but that just wasn't in the cards for me, like backpacking across Europe or going away to school to live in the dorms.
But now i see they AREN'T the same. my desires, my sexuality, that's part of the core of ME. seeing the Eiffel tower or living in a shoebox with a girl from Montana could have been really awesome experiences, but the not doing of them doesn't represent a stone that's been left unturned in the inner world of myself. does that make sense?
i've been reading this book recently called "Jane Sexes It Up." Stupid name, but interesting writings on feminism, women, desire, and sexuality. Reading it made me start wondering if we look at sex and relationships as things that won't ever live up to what we want them to be anyway, which is why some of us can accept not having explored our sexuality. It's as though getting to have intimate relationships with women rest at the top of this mountain of sexuality and desire we know we will never scale, and don't really expect anyone to help us climb. Do you know what I mean?
This is a conversation that would be much easier had if all of yall would come over here, but i'm hoping we can talk about this. What's going on here? How can we be true to ourselves without hurting people we care about or putting ourselves at risk? If we are at that place of feeling obligated to someone, or too far in with them to step back, how can we carve out places for our self? Can we live with knowing there could be more out there?
Hey there.
So, uh, I think I have a lot to say about this, but need to formulate it in my head for a while.
A bit about me first: I am a bisexual woman who until three months ago was partnered in a state-sanctioned relationship with a man. I have identified this way since my teen years. I am now thirty. At one point I was pretty darn sure I was a lesbian. Turns out I'm not. I decided then not to pigeonhole myself with any more grand declarations.
And yeah, there sure seem to be a lot of us.
Perhaps it has something to do with bisexuality's lack of validation within both the queer and straight communities. I don't have to tell you that there are several people, straight and queer, who feel bisexuality is a myth, cop-out, or simply a time of personal confusion. It's hard to get taken seriously and perhaps this makes it hard to take ourselves as bisexuals seriously. I am not saying this to lay blame of any kind on one community or another.
I've never been in the closet per se, but I didn't declare my sexuality loud and overtly, either, largely because as a woman partnered with a man, I was enjoying the priveleges that go with the arrangement and understood that. It didn't feel fair to claim my kinship within the queer community because of this, with so many women (and men) struggling for things I could so easily take for granted: walking down the street holding my partner's hand, custody of my child, etc. Then again, there are a lot of us out here, partnered with men or not, and it's DAMN LONELY. I feel like I cut off a part of my identity in the name of fairness to the queer community, and if I'm queer, then that's not good for the community, either.
Gotta run, but thank you for bringing this up, and I look forward to further discussion.
Could one reason be that there are more men interested in women than women interested in women, and of those women that are, some might still be in the closet, so there are less chances to find a woman you love than a man?
I'm bisexual and my first serious relationship was with a woman, I'm currently with a man.
For women who are attracted to women but usually partner with men, it's also really scary to step out of your comfort zone.
Society drills into our heads from birth that we need men. That in order to be a real woman, we need to sacrifice who we are and what we want. To step out of that and say, " I'm doing something for me. I want to feel pleasure and I want to feel desirable. I also want all of this without regard to what a man says." That's really powerful, in my opinion.
I don't consider myself bi sexual, so I dont fee that I really can say a whole lot about this, but the one thing i have noticed (when wanting to try having sex with a girl) that its a LOT easier to find men who want to be with you then it is to find woman. I think a big reason for that is some woman are scared to pu themselves out there, because of the fear of ridicule from others in society. Just a thought.
That's exactly right! I was pertified to put myself out there. This is one of the biggest things holding me back. It is also why I was SO glad my current girlfriend approched me. I didn't have to deal with the fear of asking her myself.
i have loomed in the doorway of out-ness for a long time, labeling myself as bisexual...
i have been in relationships with men and women, but as of yet all my relationships with women, have been with women who are partnered, and they all have told me they love their spouses.
Do i think that it's okay to live life not having explored same-sex tendencies? Absolutely not. I think keeping that part of you dormant or secret could be a potential time-bomb. I think if someone has feelings, even curiosities, they should be explored. Keeping them inside could eventually lead to feelings of resentment. This is all 'could and possibly' talk though. There will always be people in relationships who will feel that 'it wasn't in the cards'.
Before i dated my BD, i was pretty convinced that maybe 'it wasn't in the cards' for me, but I did tell him about my bisexuality, and we did agree that if the opportunity presented itself to have any kind of sexual relations with someone of the same sex, it was okay. My BD at the time, completely homophobic himself actually took me up on the opportunity at one point, it was a one-time thing - but after that he said that it wasn't for him. During the relationship i never had any opportunity (largely because i became knocked up and reclusive during my pregnancy). After we split, i started dating a girl i was friends with in high school. I was thrilled that something had finally happened for me. Now that it has, i don't see myself ever going back to being dormantly bisexual. She however, was engaged to be married and we eventually had to cut the relationship off. Two days after the wedding she called me in tears telling me she thought she was a lesbian. She now has a daughter and we see eachother once in a while, but things are tense between us, likely because she still has feelings. In her case, i worry that she is a ticking time-bomb, though she seems pretty good at repressing herself.
As for myself, being single... i'm not sure which foot to stick in what camp right now. Would i marry a man if he proposed? It's hard to say either way. I mean i long for companionship but i don't necessarily feel as though i need a legal marriage to cement that relationship.
anyhoo, i've blathered enough about my personal life. I have no idea why i tell strangers these things! ;)
this is interesting and certainly applies.
i identify as bi and am in a serious relationship with a man that i could easily imagine spending the rest of my life with.
as it happens in my case: it was a he, and not a she, that i ended up falling in love with; my last relationship before him, short-lived, was with a woman and our personalities were not compatible.
however, i was raised in a gay-friendly household and live in a small town that has a huge concentration of theater/music/artist types. same-sex relationships seem to be par for the course around here, otherwise I would wonder about socialization and its effects on me (not that i think i'm immune by any means); i don't think that applies in my case, but i really think that in most other areas, it makes total sense that acceptability and influence come into play.
this might be totally wrong, but i wonder about tendencies, rather than strictly one or the other or exactly in the middle? one of my roommates pretty much dates men exclusively, but has had sexual encounters with women and finds them attractive. does that make her bi? maybe some people identify as bi but technically are heterosexual with interest? I've never really been capable of analyzing other people's sexuality, probably because i would feel like I'm butting into a place in thier lives where i don't belong. :) sorry if this is rambling or makes little sense.
I kinda think of it as a whole spectrum from entirely heterosexual to entirely homosexual and everything in between. I don't think you can define how far you must be from one end or the other before you can identify yourself as bi. Just whatever you're comfortable with I guess. I find it hard even to figure out where I would put myself on that scale. If someone drew me a line with that spectrum illustrated on it and asked me to place a mark where I fit in, I'd have trouble. I know I'd go somewhere near the middle but to which side, and how far? I'm not sure, but it doesn't bother me. I'm happy with myself with regards to sexual identity. (not so much other things heh)
This is something that I am really struggling with right now.
The idea of being with a woman, more than sexually, scares me, and I've spent a lot of time deconstructing this in my head.
forgive me if this is rambling because i"m still sorting it out.
My parents are really open people, but I wasn't aware of unions of people who weren't in hetrosexual relationships at all.
Honestly, being with a man is a safe thing to do. You are accepted, you know that you are going to be able to get certain things, either from the man, or from society as a result of your relationship (things-- both physical and emotional, validation, etc.).
I have been taught my whole life, not blatently, but through the media and observation, how to interact with men. I have been taught to use my body to get what I need- emotionally and phsically- from men.
Turning away from that can be really scary, because it's something new. The dynamics that I have with women are really different from the dynamics that I have with men. Even, when they are both lust drivin.
I think for a lot of us we are partnered with men which makes exploring your sexuality hard. I got pregnant with Xander and married before I got to explore all I wanted. As of now being with a woman is out of the picture because my husband has flat out said he would leave me if i did. So in my case although I badly want to be with a woman just to see what its like before I label myself and put myself into one catagory or another I will never be able too.
Plus at a young age everyone else is still figuring out wo they are. Not many young people come out and say "hi i'm bi, gay, lesbian, trans etc" it is something we don't tell our best friends. So how can we find someone to figure it all out with? Atleast in my case this is how I feel and how I see it...
I identify as bi... However my phisical standers for girls are a lot high then a guy. I'm much more attracted to girls then guys. However I wouldn't want a full relationship with another woman just strikly sex. (I know that sounds awful). I'm free to sleep with girls and my husband would not consider it cheating just like if he was atracted to a guy. We just have to be safe about sleeping with someone else and can't go from person to person. However threesomes have been and would be the best for our situations.
I don't understand this. To me, sleeping with someone else is cheating, and the gender has no bearing on it.
Well to YOU this might be considered cheating, but to miguelsmommy and her partner, it's not. It's as simple as that.
I know. I wasn't trying to say that she was wrong, I simply stated that I didn't understand, and said what it meant for me. I'm sorry if I offended you.
oh heck no! i'm not offended in the slightest, all i am saying is that maybe we all need to take things at face value sometimes. Just because something is right for you, doesn't mean it's right for other people, know what i mean? So monogamy works for you and that's awesome, but for some people it just doesn't, and for those people perhaps it's okay to experience other avenues, while still remaining emotionally faithful to their partner.
I apologize if i came off as being harsh.
Word to what katg said.
For me, also, it's fear. Plain and simple. I don't think it's something I can articulate any more at this point, because I'm still dealing with it myself, but that's it, in one word: fear.
i didn't mean for this to be become a "justify to julie" kind of thread. it's just a topic that had piqued my curiosity. there's a lot i wanted to respond to, since this is a subject near and dear to my heart, so i hope i'm not dominating the conversation or scaring anyone off. all of this is just stuff from my own head, my own experiences and speculations, no official statements or whatever.
kattg
"Turning away from that can be really scary, because it's something new. "
I have a letter I wrote to alli when i was locked out of my house a few months before she moved here. it was written on a Randalls Remarkable Card brochure and outlined all of the fears i had about being in a relationship with another woman. i was scared shitless, really. and this was after i'd already told my parents we were in love and she was moving to be with me.
in my experience, the fact that my partner is a woman really doesn't enter into our daily interactions. she's alli, she's this person with a certain past, present, personality, way of relating, etc. there are the additional stresses that come from being in a marginalized and invalidated relationship, but most of my fear was unfounded. (and what did i have to fear, really? it was mainly internalized homophobia rearing it's ugly and persistant head) this is not to say your experience will be the same, just that for me, what seemed like a giant mountain was, in actuality, a little hill. :)
boomboom
"Perhaps it has something to do with bisexuality's lack of validation within both the queer and straight communities. I don't have to tell you that there are several people, straight and queer, who feel bisexuality is a myth, cop-out, or simply a time of personal confusion."
Unfortunately, I'm not sure how this will ever be remedied, since I personally see the reasoning behind it being that bisexual people are threatening. (and this is just me speaking from what i think is going on, not making sweeping statements for any community).
Many straight men I've known are wary of bisexual women, because they've all heard how "only a woman knows what a woman needs" or various other girls do it better phrases. In theory, a girl who likes girls is hot, but it doesn't seem to always work that way in practice. A certain amount of machismo is lost when a woman cheats on a man with another woman, or leaves him for one, as he must be the one who was so emasculated he "turned her."
And in the queer community, nearly all of us know and experience on some level that it's harder being non-straight than straight. So the fear that our bisexual-identified partner will leave us for the seemingly simpler, less complicated life of a male/female pairing exists. I see this play out in my own relationship in that even thinking that alli might think a guy is cute is ten million times worse than knowing that she thinks a woman is attractive. I suppose being a woman socialized to question, compare, and dislike herself, feeling like i alone must be enough to justify my partner's choice to remain in an oppressed relationship freaks me out, and having heard all my life that girls are weaker than men and can't measure up makes it hard to feel in competition with one.
i was actually thinking about this at the bar last night. i'm nearly always presumed straight and haven't really adopted any of the current queer signifiers that the community here adheres to. (like, i would never ever wear a visor and no white undershirts...i need cleavage!) so in many occasions it feels like being considered "femme" or "girly" or whatever runs into the fear of bisexuality and the contemptuous "you aren't a REAL lesbian."
Kyamo
"Could one reason be that there are more men interested in women than women interested in women, and of those women that are, some might still be in the closet, so there are less chances to find a woman you love than a man? "
i do think numbers play a part, along with the assumption of heterosexuality unless proven otherwise, and the lack of a known protocol for how a woman should approach another woman. with male/female relations, most of us have gender role socialization to fall back on. guy approaches girl, guy asks for number, guy calls, guy drives, etc etc. the fact that there are no scripts for same sex relationships, from start to finish, makes them harder to navigate. even now, two years into my own, i'm still confused about certain things, since we don't get to have many of the conventional cultural sign posts that tell us where we are, where to go, and how far we've come.
i think that its just so f'ing scary for people to approach same-sex or non-oppisite-sex stuff for the first while. and its a fear that is strong and real enough to keep people stifeled. like if im out and about in normal everyday land, theres a 90% chance that the dude i think is hot is attracted to girls and only 10% chance the lady im sweet on is a big queer (i know these numbers are stupid, but its what people hear all the time). getting regected, as a woman, by a guy is so no big deal - hes just nnot interested, no woories. but if you approach a woman and shes straight its so scary, like what if shes a big homophobe. what if whe tells her big beefy boyfriend that that dyke over there just hit on her, offered to buy her a drink, what if i thien get the shit kicked out of me?
i dont so much worry about these things anymore, mostly cause all of my friends are queer and i only really hang out in queer spaces, but its still scary. and i understand how taking this big scary part of yourself, that youre not feeling realy confident about, that youve been taught all of your life is wrong, dirty , perverted, and putting it out there? especially if you dont have queer friends or support. so scary. when you have a totally sanctioned 'appropriate' relatio thing going on with a guy, it makes lots of sense to stick with that, cause its safe and not seen as so 'subversive' or weird or whatever. the same risks arent there.
for me, i worry constantly about my friends. theres just no way that they can go anywhere without everyone knowing that a big pack of queers is coming along. i look pretty straight, so i get away with that privledge, and its mostly ok when were in big groups, cause we're tough as nails, but i worry incessently about my friends when theyre out alone, getting the shit kicked out of them, getting sexually assaulted, getting their hearts broken. and so many of us dont have relatios with our families of origin anymore cause we're out, have been bashed or assaulted, have lost jobs and friends and lovers and on and on. its big scary shit. for all the 'queer eye' pop culture stuff, the world is still a scary place to be a freak in, to love how and who you want. its a brave thing to be out and folllow your heart and love whoever you want to love.
even normally simple things are harder - bringing my trans partner to thanksgiving dinner. explaining pronouns. kissing goodnight on the street - afraid someone will see us and they'll walk home alone and get jumped. its really hard.
but so so good. and real and beautiful and getting over that initial fear doesnt mean an easy bliss-filled life, but its so good to get past it. and find people to support and cherish you no matter who you want and who turns you on. im rambeling. what katg said. heh.
I completely agree with ya Kell. I'm very curious and have done some experimenting but I am also married. It is very hard for me to just come out and tell him that I would actually prefer being with a woman instead of him. Although, he already knows that.
It is just really hard for me to approach another woman and even talk to her. Growing up I was one of the guys. All my friends were guys so I could say stuff like "damn she is really hot!" but now I don't feel like it is ok.
Do you have any advice for me? What can I do?
Julie: Yes! Threatening. That's a biggie. I think bisexuality feels a bit loosy-goosey to some people, certainly in themselves, and when it applies to other people as well. I know it does to me; like the illusion of stability isn't quite opaque enough. Like, how much insecurity can one person handle? I feel you about the internalized homophobia rearing its head.