I work for PPRM (Planned Parenthood of the rocky mountains) We were discussing how our clinic would work if Bush made abortions illigal in every state. How would you all feel and what would you do?
really? I don't know much about the political system, but I thought the closest to illegalizing abortion Bush would get would be overturning RvW (which I doubt will happen anyway).
I don't know how to stop it... I probably wouldn't do much if he made abortion illegal because I doubt I will still be in this country if that time came.
Leaving the country doesn't mean the problem goes away.
Oh I understand that but doubt I will have the energy/desire to be tangled up with American politics. :wink: I am hoping to go to SA next year to do a public health program and basically never come back...
Well, before Plan B (emergency contraception) and RU486 (medical abortion) was available AT ALL, I thought I'd learn about menstrual extraction. Join a DIY women's education group or something, learn & spread the word. Now I think I'd try and get some kind of network going, legal or otherwise, and start getting those pills available and a network of volunteer healthcare providers as advisors/administrators/back-up.
Agreed with boomboom on underground networking. I'd say what I really would do if abortion became illegal but don't believe it's safe to talk about that anywhere in a public forum...
I think if Bush ever fully outlawed abortion, he'd have to deal with the outrage of millions of women who value their uterus-freedom. The March for Choice is a pretty big event already, but could you imagine the turnout if that choice was actually taken away?
I'm glad we have a balance of power- it'll take more than Bush alone to get rid of abortion... though I suppose it's always possible that the anti-choice movement could gain more momentum and power than it already has... and take over the other governing branches.
I've wondered before if I'd actually go to war (a civil or guerilla war) to defend the right to choose. I guess reading The Handmaid's Tale actually made me think about the possibility of a military resistance to an oppressive US government where women lose their rights... and I see the loss of the right to privacy in medical care (abortion) as part of a larger devaluation of women and their autonomy. Any government that belives that a mass of cells is worth more than a woman will never represent me.
But I don't really belive that war is the answer. I remember reading about Quaker underground railroad organizations that helped underage girls get from Pennsylvania to New York where they could have abortions without parental conscent... this was back in the early nineties, shortly after laws started to change to restrict access to abortion- at least in some Northeastern states. I remember reading about web based projects that members of this site have set up to help people access funds for and transportation to abortion. Things like are already helping people... and they'd be even more necessary if laws were passed banning abortion all together.
I doubt it will be overturned. He doesn't have the support of the people. Also, the risk is too high. If women truely want an abortion, just as they did in the days before Roe vs Wade, they will get them. It will be more expensive and more dangerous because there will be no regulations. It might make a few Bible-beaters happy, but it wouldn't be a popular decision.
NOT TO MENTION that the chances of the next president being liberal are very high. In that case, Bush's changes would be undone.
the scary thing is, as we have seen, he doesn't have to have the support of all the people. look at how many people voted against him yet he still won? also, abortion should not be underestimated as a hot-button issue, to say the least, to a large number of the "moral voters".
a book i can't help but think of is the story of jane, the underground abortion network. i think of women are going to have any shot of acquiring safe abortions (and i mean women that can't afford to go to another country or who need to keep the abortion a secret from a spouse, lover, etc) than we need to seriously consider how to effectively and safely provide "underground" abortions.
it scares me to think that a lot of women are sitting back and thinking it won't happen. because i think it very well could.
Sigh. Bush won with over half the vote and the electoral vote, so bringing that up is just pointless. To overturn Roe vs Wade, he'd not only want to have the majority of the people behind it, but he's also got to get it passed through Congress. Therefore, the chances of it happening are so slim. Why?
First, the time it would take to pass through Congress is great. Like I said before, the next President will probably be a democrat, and it will just get reversed.
Secondly, this is Bush's second term; his last term. So the chances of him going out by overturning something as huge as Roe vs Wade and banning abortion across the entire country is unlikely. That won't make for favorable reading in the history books when they read about him and his impact on the 21st century.
Last, along with the last point, historically, Presidents generally fail misurably at their second term goals.
Taking all that into consideration, it's highly doubtful he'd be successful in his mission to abolish abortion. It's the same as his antidisestablishmentarianistic stance. <-- Him being against the separation of Church and State. There's plenty he wants to change about that, but it won't happen.
oh yeah, in know he got a huge number of votes but people also came out in records numbers to vote against him, that is all i was talking about.
also, if it went before the supreme court and he (very likely) will nominate at least one supreme court justice by the time his term is up.
i guess my point is that i don't feel like we can complacently sit by and assume it won't change. even if it dosen't become illegal, the choices we have are getting more defined and that is bad enough[/code]
i guess my point is that i don't feel like we can complacently sit by and assume it won't change. even if it dosen't become illegal, the choices we have are getting more defined and that is bad enough
Protests in 2000 and 2001 did a lot of good. Which is what I mean when I say he would want the people's support. Thousands upon thousands of American's protesting him isn't what he needs.
Also, what do you mean by your last statement? The choices getting more defined? Are you talking about the Partial Birth Abortion Act?
i think you are more hopeful than i am, because i personally don't think he gives a shit about the protests.
by my last statement i meant things like the "partial birth abortion" decision as well as moves that are being made to shut down abortion providers, deny birth control to women, put in the waiting period, etc.
Bush doesn't have the power to make abortion illegal in every state does he?
yeah...he does.
A good question to ask is how can we stop it?
really? I don't know much about the political system, but I thought the closest to illegalizing abortion Bush would get would be overturning RvW (which I doubt will happen anyway).
I don't know how to stop it... I probably wouldn't do much if he made abortion illegal because I doubt I will still be in this country if that time came.
Leaving the country doesn't mean the problem goes away.
Oh I understand that but doubt I will have the energy/desire to be tangled up with American politics. :wink: I am hoping to go to SA next year to do a public health program and basically never come back...
Well, before Plan B (emergency contraception) and RU486 (medical abortion) was available AT ALL, I thought I'd learn about menstrual extraction. Join a DIY women's education group or something, learn & spread the word. Now I think I'd try and get some kind of network going, legal or otherwise, and start getting those pills available and a network of volunteer healthcare providers as advisors/administrators/back-up.
Agreed with boomboom on underground networking. I'd say what I really would do if abortion became illegal but don't believe it's safe to talk about that anywhere in a public forum...
:lol: @ erika
I think if Bush ever fully outlawed abortion, he'd have to deal with the outrage of millions of women who value their uterus-freedom. The March for Choice is a pretty big event already, but could you imagine the turnout if that choice was actually taken away?
Hell hath no fury like the scorn of a woman.
That just makes me think about the self-harming things women will do when they can't access abortion. It makes me sad.
I would learn as much as I can about herbal abortions.
I'm glad we have a balance of power- it'll take more than Bush alone to get rid of abortion... though I suppose it's always possible that the anti-choice movement could gain more momentum and power than it already has... and take over the other governing branches.
I've wondered before if I'd actually go to war (a civil or guerilla war) to defend the right to choose. I guess reading The Handmaid's Tale actually made me think about the possibility of a military resistance to an oppressive US government where women lose their rights... and I see the loss of the right to privacy in medical care (abortion) as part of a larger devaluation of women and their autonomy. Any government that belives that a mass of cells is worth more than a woman will never represent me.
But I don't really belive that war is the answer. I remember reading about Quaker underground railroad organizations that helped underage girls get from Pennsylvania to New York where they could have abortions without parental conscent... this was back in the early nineties, shortly after laws started to change to restrict access to abortion- at least in some Northeastern states. I remember reading about web based projects that members of this site have set up to help people access funds for and transportation to abortion. Things like are already helping people... and they'd be even more necessary if laws were passed banning abortion all together.
I doubt it will be overturned. He doesn't have the support of the people. Also, the risk is too high. If women truely want an abortion, just as they did in the days before Roe vs Wade, they will get them. It will be more expensive and more dangerous because there will be no regulations. It might make a few Bible-beaters happy, but it wouldn't be a popular decision.
NOT TO MENTION that the chances of the next president being liberal are very high. In that case, Bush's changes would be undone.
the scary thing is, as we have seen, he doesn't have to have the support of all the people. look at how many people voted against him yet he still won? also, abortion should not be underestimated as a hot-button issue, to say the least, to a large number of the "moral voters".
a book i can't help but think of is the story of jane, the underground abortion network. i think of women are going to have any shot of acquiring safe abortions (and i mean women that can't afford to go to another country or who need to keep the abortion a secret from a spouse, lover, etc) than we need to seriously consider how to effectively and safely provide "underground" abortions.
it scares me to think that a lot of women are sitting back and thinking it won't happen. because i think it very well could.
Sigh. Bush won with over half the vote and the electoral vote, so bringing that up is just pointless. To overturn Roe vs Wade, he'd not only want to have the majority of the people behind it, but he's also got to get it passed through Congress. Therefore, the chances of it happening are so slim. Why?
First, the time it would take to pass through Congress is great. Like I said before, the next President will probably be a democrat, and it will just get reversed.
Secondly, this is Bush's second term; his last term. So the chances of him going out by overturning something as huge as Roe vs Wade and banning abortion across the entire country is unlikely. That won't make for favorable reading in the history books when they read about him and his impact on the 21st century.
Last, along with the last point, historically, Presidents generally fail misurably at their second term goals.
Taking all that into consideration, it's highly doubtful he'd be successful in his mission to abolish abortion. It's the same as his antidisestablishmentarianistic stance. <-- Him being against the separation of Church and State. There's plenty he wants to change about that, but it won't happen.
oh yeah, in know he got a huge number of votes but people also came out in records numbers to vote against him, that is all i was talking about.
also, if it went before the supreme court and he (very likely) will nominate at least one supreme court justice by the time his term is up.
i guess my point is that i don't feel like we can complacently sit by and assume it won't change. even if it dosen't become illegal, the choices we have are getting more defined and that is bad enough[/code]
Protests in 2000 and 2001 did a lot of good. Which is what I mean when I say he would want the people's support. Thousands upon thousands of American's protesting him isn't what he needs.
Also, what do you mean by your last statement? The choices getting more defined? Are you talking about the Partial Birth Abortion Act?
i think you are more hopeful than i am, because i personally don't think he gives a shit about the protests.
by my last statement i meant things like the "partial birth abortion" decision as well as moves that are being made to shut down abortion providers, deny birth control to women, put in the waiting period, etc.