Sex-workers, like those in any other occupation, neednât ever justify their job to anyone else. Iâm not here to justify anything, I donât need to justify anything. Iâm here to do what little I can to clear away stereotypes. Iâm also here with a plea:
Any feminist, and any feminist organisation (including this site) needs to fully support the rights and causes of sex workers, including defense against criticism by other women. The stereotypes you may have and may be vocalising are actively oppressing a large group of women very similar to you.
I am just starting sex work, so I am by no means an expert in the industry, hell this is all new to me. I do, however, know that I am more than a stereotype, just as all of you are, just as all of my sex worker friends are.
We need to do something, here, now, to demystify, de-stigmatize, and unlearn. Then and only then will those of us who have worked in the industry feel safe here.
I agree. A woman should never have to justify why she is a sex worker, stripper, working in the porn industry ever. I think this is a good post, thanks for posting it.
A woman is not bad, dirty or anything for having a job like this. Why is it brought to become this way? I was brought up thinking all of that is bad, which thankfully, I had the right mind to know it's not.
It's also sad on the media and other ppl when they seem to protray this women as less as human. They aren't at all. They are women working and I think it all needs to be legal and a union started for them.
I love reading when women can post about their sex work and have no shame in it. I have never worked in this business, but I am glad to learn & unlearn about it. I certainly have no girl-mom.
Thanks, sphinx for posting this.
There is no shame in sex work. I've learned (and unlearned) a lot from the previous sex worker threads on this board.
Sex workers are women doing a job. Its not about fucking lots of people or being an exhibitionist. Its a job that feeds the family and pays the bills. Its a job that lets women give the best life they can offer to their kids.
No matter what stereotypes you've heard- they don't apply to every individual in the industry. Keep that in mind.Sex workers are women and as a group of feminists, we should support them.
Years ago now, when I first started posting about being a sex worker I envisioned that I would be able to talk about work in a general manner, offload if I had a crappy shift, that kind thing, everyone else has freedom to do here. Didn't happen.
I tried many times to inform but there gets to be a point where you get sick to death of having to talk sex worker 101 .. its keeps me (nd the other adult industry workers on GM) in the position of 'other'.
Most GMers have been cool, I'm not going to deny that. Hey it isn't Ms Mag Message boards or anything like that. But the fact that any one at all can feel justified in throwing round shitty stereotypes and demonising sex workers here isn't ever fucking okay. I don't care if they haven't learnt yet or whatever. Or want a pat on the back cause they've 'unlearnt'.
I just want to be open about an aspect of me, I wnt my fellow adult industry workers to feel the same.
I'm tired and sick of it. I wish it were a rock solid unacceptable thing at GM to be acting like a fuckwit over sex worker issues.[/i]
There are soooo many misconceptions and BS about the sex industry, and I wish people would think before they talk out of their arse about it. It's the same with anything, ANY stereotype or generalization is BS and hurtful. People don't seem to realize that they're talking to someone who's still just like them, someone who works hard to pay the bills, another woman who's just as worthy of support and consideration as anyone else. You shouldn't have to be silenced, or oppressed, especially in a feminist forum. It made me sad in the other thread to see someone posted with AnonymousMama with their experiences, because it's true that this topic can be very unsafe here, and I wish it weren't, I wish that no one had to feel that scared to talk about themselves and their lives for fear of judgement or hatred directed at them.
It's not even treated as real oppression, either, and it is and it should be. If some of the comments against the sex industry that I've seen here, were EVER targetted at any other group (well, I guess not ANY other group, but that's a whole nother rant ;) ) it wouldn't be tolerated by ANYONE, it would be called out a million times over, but whether people are not coming to the defense of these oppressed women because they don't know what to say, or they don't want to step on toes, or because they're ignorant enough to NOT see it as actual oppression, these oppressed women are still going undefended.
It should not be up to you guys to defend yourselves, your lives or your work. You should NOT be the ones responsible to teach women over and over and over in hopes that they will stop being offensive, it should be coming from each and every one of us, each and every one of us should be coming to your support, because not doing so is contributing to the oppression. Silence is oppression. It's something we ALL have to speak out about.
Absolutley aggreed, no shame at all. we need to turn around the views of those that see it differently
By the way, Just so you know, I'm NOT just going to let this thread get buried, so be prepared for serial bumping.
I agree with you there naivete, but there may be other reasons for anonymity. Someone cautious because, well, this is a public forum and even IF we can make Girlmom safe for sex workers, this forum is viewable to the entire internet, and people's family members may have very different reactions to such news.
So I can understand the need for anonymity in some cases.
I know other girls have mentioned that it gets tiring having to "educate" other women on sex work. However, because I'm new to the sex industry, and have not had to deal with years of CRAP from other people, I'd be willing to talk about what I do on here, if it will help to familiarize people to the reality and help to demystify the profession (keep in mind again that my experience is limited and not universal).
Just an offer.
I found this post from a long time ago that was written by Maja. - Sex worker myths and realities.
(I hope you don't mind that I reposted the link Maja)
http://www.girl-mom.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7445
This topic is very very important. I think you're right Sphinx, keep bumping it because, I'm sure a lot of women are probably ashamed of what they do because of the constant judgement from other people.
I am interested in hearing about your work, M. How did you find this job? What is your working day like?
Maja, when you say that you are tired of posting the "Sex Worker 101" stuff, what do you mean, exactly? Are you referring to having to explain over and over to people that it is just a job, that sex work is a valid profession, and that sex workers deserve respect? Or are you tired of people asking about what you do at your job, specifically, and that sort of thing? Because I am always very interested to hear about the day to day life of women who work in the sex industry, and I would probably ask as many questions as you'd be willing to answer, but I don't want to offend you, or anyone else.
What Maja is saying is that we do spend half our lives justifying our jobs and explaining to people how we are still 'just like you' and it's a ridiculous and insulting thing to have to prove based on our profession.
Many women on here are wonderful but there are others who treat us like we are second rate mothers and second rate humans and on a website where we are meant to be fighting women's opression that seems to me incredibly screwed up.
Until recently nobody ever even got called out for making direct insults toward us.
Our jobs are like any other job, I am a sex worker therefore I work in the customer service industry, sometimes it sucks, sometimes it's bearable.
If you ask in a genuine, I don't know because all i've heard are prejudices and I don't agree and want to fight them, way then I personlly am more than happy to share with you anything you want to know.
It's the people who make hooker jokes and who read into stereotypes and create opinions of us without even knowing us and telling other Girlmoms about their opinions of us and our jobs that we have a problem with.
I found my first job by walking into a strip club 5 years ago when I was homeless and desperately needed to eat, I started off working in seedy clubs and on the streets, my current work I do in brothels by coming in and doing shifts and it's just another workplace really.
The average working day consists of sitting round chatting to other girls I work with, maybe watching tv, reading, writing, drinking coffee, whatever.
Then when guys come in you meet them and they decide who they want to book and if it's you then you do a job.
Totally mundane and can be summed up in a couple of sentences.
When I did b&d work we just took bookings and worked from my exes home so when a guy called with a booking and she wanted me to help her out she'd just give me a call and i'd come over at the appointed time.
If you want to go into it more you can pm me, i'll probably post more here when i'm a little more rested.
Okay monkey:
I'll start a little earlier: I have a rather unhealthy relationship with my parents. My father is sweet as can be, supportive, understanding, my mother is verbally and emotionally abusive. I'm still financially dependent on them, and live with them, and for the last number of years, I've been stuck in this limbo of "I want to get out of this situation but I'm too afraid to" along with my parents telling me that I'm too emotionally unstable to be independent. So I stay there and sink further and further into this hole. It reached a snapping point this February, and for a while nothing changed, but through the spring and summer, I started looking into ways I could gain my independence and autonomy.
I already go to school full time and have another (part time) job at the law library, so my options were limited. I began looking into stripping or other kinds of sex work because it is so prevalent in this town (Vegas), and because I knew that that would be where I could make the most money. I talked with some friends who were sex-workers, did some planning and some looking around.
During that time, this summer, I also began to realise that I want to be with someone else, but that someone else is in another country and plane tickets are very very expensive and would take me years to save up with my other job.
All of these factors combined and after some research and discussion, I started looking in my town. In Vegas, only the topless bars can serve alchohol, and the nude joints can only have juice bars. Because I am a year shy of 21, I can only work at nude places because of this. So I went around to some of the nude clubs, and some places I left almost immediately, because I got a creepy feeling, or because someone was rude to me. I finally found a place that has just been renovated, I talked to the manager there, auditoned (which consisted of being looked over, both with and without clothes, doing some moves to assure them that I could at least sort of move to rhythm), filled out some paperwork and an application, and then the manager went off to get me a referral slip (in Vegas you need to apply for a special card with the Sheriff's Dept. to be able to dance, and you need a referral from your hiring club) so I talked to some of the dancers there, just to make sure they liked the place.
They all said they loved it, and welcomed me, the manager gave me my slip, shook my hand, and that was that.
I'm still waiting on the card though, it really slows things down...
PLEASE note that all of my experiences are MY OWN and not "typical" of strippers or sex-workers or ANYONE because I'm not sure there is a typical.
Bumpity-bump (yes this is going to continue until this place becomes a safe-space for sex workers)
I wish we could get more people to join the discussion, we have some workers and some worker allies, but I think this is an issue that everyone who posts at this site needs to consider and understand. This isn't some "fringe" subject, this is just as important as learning about and acknowledging our other prejudices, and I'd hate to see this cast off to the side until it's RESOLVED.
These women shouldn't feel forced to constantly defend themselves or their jobs. I'm sad to see it happen so much.
When it comes to sex work, like any other marginalized group or even anything at all, think before saying anything. Think about the people who will read your words, think about their feelings, their lives, then speak. If you have questions contact someone who has opened up that line of communication but ignorance doesn't excuse hurtful comments or wrong generalizations.
That's why I made this thread. Because they shouldn't...but like you say, they DO, a LOT, and I figure if we can bash all the stereotypes here, then it won't have to happen again, and if it DOES, then there won't be any using ignorance as an excuse.
Sick of the first one, having to say that we are actually human beings, shouldn't be denigrated, all the stuff that shouldn't need to be said.
However I am cool with folks respectful curiousity; if there's stuff you want to know feel free to ask.
I don't expect non-sex workers to know how it is to be a sex worker. I just expect that people behave in a decent and non-judgemental manner.
I think that it's horribly sad, and have always though that it's horribly sad, that sex workers have to justify themselves to anyone, especially women on girlmom. To me, that's completely unacceptable, to the point where I would invite anyone who is unwilling to unlearn prejudices they have about sexworkers to leave.
I tihnk that people who are unwilling to ADMIT they have prejudices are more insidious, because they refuse to even accept that there is a problem.
This goes for prejudices against sex workers, and prejudices against anyone.
well ive never done sex work before however, i do agree i see and hear loads of hurtful comments and dirty jokes about sex work and even women in general. i think this is a good topic because its not an issue i would ever see addressed in my everyday life but is something im sure ive been guilty of. its sad how we repeat learned sterotypes and hatred with out stopping to realize we dont really mean it, we are just ignorant. hopefully this will open peoples eyes.
In my opinion, that's what it should come down to.
Like anything else, it comes down to supply and demand...and despite the crap that sex workers get from society, they're supplying the demand that society has put in place...making discrimination totally hypocritical.
Anyone who feeds their kids, pays their bills etc, has my respect...
Okay, I'm tired, and I've lost my train of thought...but I will be back.
<---This is Marcy trying to make the thread more active.
I figure that since we've already got the discussion started, why not make this a place to safely discuss various aspects of sex work, and to respectfully ask non-judgemental questions.
<-----This is Erin, trying to get questions moving.
For those of you that are involved in this field- how much do you make in an average night?
Do you see yourself doing this for many years to come, as a long term career, or is it just for the time being?
How often do you need to work to make enough to meet your needs?
For those of you that are involved in this field- how much do you make in an average night?
There is no such thing as an average night!
So many factors come into play. How many workers are on, who the other workers are, what the clients are after, how many regs* you have, which venue & what area the venue is in (I did my first night at a new venue and wondered why it was so quiet. "Its Ramadan, wait til after 10:30pm" I was told & sure enough it started to pick up), which services you do & how in demand they are.. Too much is random!
I've seen gorgeous girls make next to nothing on busy nights, I've made ridiculous amounts of money on 'quiet' nights. You might have a shitty shift and get only round $250, the next night $600, the next $400...
In general if I'm not making at least $350 per night by the first couple of weeks I move on to somewhere else. at least $450 when I've become established somewhere.
Escort is a different thing altogther. Me & a friend ran our own escort small business (just the two of us, a "bi girl double"). You get way more per hour, theres way more costs though (advertising). & security issues. Plus no waiting round in cold smoky girls rooms. But having to have the phone on most the time to answer clients calls was a fucking annoyance..Got a huge tax return that year though..
Do you see yourself doing this for many years to come, as a long term career, or is it just for the time being?
It has been a long time so far, but it has also been on/off.
I've returned recently after taking 18 months off.
I thought after I'd gotten into uni I wouldn't be going back (I got pregnant and quit working in first year), But here I am. Certainly I presume I won't do sex work after my degree. I don't envision that I will continue in the industry for too many more years, but if I continue to make a reasonble amount of money there is no shame in me working for some time more. At 27, I still am many years younger than the average sex worker, so it's fair to say I have quite a few good years left. I'd rather not though.
How often do you need to work to make enough to meet your needs?
Again, random. At the moment I work only one night a week, as does my wife.
If theres school fees, bills or something like that I will take on more shifts.
I'll work up to 4 shifts a week (past tense, I haven't done this much yet since returning to work) but 4x a week burns you out quickly.
I worked more when my eldest was in private school & also support other people financially.
Inspite of media fantasies that we are all rolling in the $$, most workers I know are making the average wage or just a touch more, just in 1-2 shifts per week rather than 40hrs & occasionally doing more shifts if they have extra costs or are trying to reach a goal.
*Regs = Regulars, clients who you've seen before who return to see you. Some girls have the same regs for years, who will follow them from parlour to parlour. When you start somewhere new you build up your regs. Also there are "house regs" of particular brothel. They know all the girls, try out all the new girls, know all the receptionists and feel at home in the parlour. Some are nice, some are completely irritating. Mostly they are sad men who are looking for somewhere to belong, and hang round way too much.
Maja (or anyone else who has done escort work), when you were doing escort work, how did you deal with security issues? Did you ever have any problems? What sorts of things might raise red flags to you that a client might be a problem?
The majority of escort work I have done has been with another worker (the foremention "bi girl" escort business), only a few times have I done escorts solo (not thru an agency but as an outcall from a brothel I was working in). I'm not personally very comfortable with doing solo escort work.
There is at least one GM I can think of who has a fair bit more experience in escorts.
Me & my business partner had some rules we operated by.
We were cautious.
We would only visit on the condition that there was only one male at the place we were visiting. We had hetero couple clients too.
We would be escorted to the door of the venue by a male friend who we paid a tiny amount to just to look menacing! We would let the client know that we would be being dropped off by our 'driver' (he actually didn't drive) Occasionally a client would seem iffy about this & try talk us out of this security arrangment, needless to say we didn't visit these clients.
One of us would give the home a quick look round to see if there was no concealed dangers (people, cameras, dogs, etc), we would do this before the driver left. We got the driver to count & hold our money.
You get used to always checking a place out, ways of escaping, just as a habit.
You keep yourself between the client & his clothing (this goes for brothel work to) naked guys can't conceal weapons!
We had a timer, we told the clients we had to call our driver the moment time was up so we used the timer so we could be accurate. We would tell them okay the hour starts now. also saves arguing over whether they got the proper amount of time. It was my friends idea cause it gave a definite end point to the booking. Guys try to weadle extra time out of you.
We carried mace but never needed to use it.
When the timer would go off one of us would call 'the driver' who would make his way to meet us at the door. It made getting dressed a quicker situation than when guys are trying to get you to stay longer, they don't like the idea of a strange man knocking on the door.
Don't accept drinks while you're on the job. Occsionally I broke this because I watched the drink being prepared.
Never soften your security arrangements.
The last time I broke that rule taught me never to compromise my safety again.
I have had a few hairy encounters, not many.
We've pulled the plug on a few jobs.
More often you get time wasters who will call all the time and pretend to be different prospective clients, ask for way too much info over the phone. basically these guys are after free phone sex. There is a balancing act between not letting these guys get away with there pestering but not scraing off real prospective clients who just happen to have questions. You get the same thing in brothels, guys who intro to girls with no intention of booking but ask you allsorts of questions.
Occasionally you get "no shows". Where there will be no one when you turn up. Drive home a different way.
Conducting yourself confidently, friendly but firm, not giving an inch of leeway filters out difficult clients.
Guys who argue your boundaries are a warning sign
("why don't you do this?" "I'll book you only if you do ...")
Well then you won't be booking me then.
Never try to hard to get a job.
Be very good at saying no firmly.
Better to have a few good clients & an adequate amount of money & intact self esteem than a whole heap, expose yourself to danger or at very least feel like shit the next day.
Never let anyone talk to you like shit. Even if they are as gentle as a lamb they must treat you with absolute respect.
They'll get the same back.
There are a few guys who will pretend to be all scared and shy as a way of manipulating, breaking down your barriers. They present themselves as harmless losers. Don't trust them.
above all always trust your instincts.
I haven't posted much... I've been computerless. But I had to comment in this thread.
Sex work is work. I applaud any woman that has the guts to work in such a potentially dangerous business. In some places it's legal and I happen to be close friends with a legal, professional sex worker. And lemme tell you. It does not sound easy... or even that amusing. But it's work. A job. A way to get by and put food on the table. A way to keep a roof over your head. And if you feel that's the way for you... whether it be short-term or long-term... I have all the respect in the world for you.
I have a question, I hope you don't mind answering for me.
On the way to arizona one night, i sat by a man and woman that i met in Las Vagas. They were both really cool and easy to talk to They both ran a legal escort service. I got the jist of it, but never got around to asking what makes an illegal escort service and a legal one?
Every escort service I have heard of is legal. The spokespeople of each company will tell you that they are not selling sex, but companionship, and the do not endorse...blahdiblahdiblah. In other words, its just a big loophole that these services get around (or would one go through a loophole?) by being very careful as to their language.
I dont mean to be really dumb but what is an escort, and what does brothel mean?
Basically escorts say they don't do sex, but really they do.
For those of you that are involved in this field- how much do you make in an average night?
Maja basically said it all and we work at many of the same places anyway.
I made more doing escort and b&d mistressing but the costs for advertising are through the roof, normally I just work in brothels and that's where I did escort through so I didn't make as much as I would have privately but the b&d work I did privately with my ex from her place and we made alot of money.
I've also worked on the streets (which I would never recommend to anyone and only did because I had no other choice, there is no security on the streets) and charged by the service I gave rather than time which is how brothels charge.
Do you see yourself doing this for many years to come, as a long term career, or is it just for the time being?
I am 20, young for your average worker, but have been working for 5.5 years now.
It has been an on and off thing over the years, between other little jobs, I also write for a magazine, but before I got pregnant the last time I was only doing sex work and stopped working about 3 months into my pregnancy.
I haven't worked since I gave birth and have no idea when i'll go back but would like to leave it as long as possible because i'm enjoying the break.
I will definately go back sometimes, it is my job, I make good money and don't have to work much, it's nice to know that it's there.
I plan to study sometime in the next few years after i've had another kid, so once I have my degree I will not be working in the industry any more.
How often do you need to work to make enough to meet your needs?
It all depends on my needs at the time, whether it's my only job, how much I make each shift I do.
I generally will work anything from 1 to 3 or 4 shifts a week.
Sometimes i'll have an amount I need to make and then once i've made that I either don't work again until I need more money or do more shift for some extra cash.
I've had poor times and times where i've had lots of money, depends on who I was supporting at the time, where I was living, stuff like that.
On the escort front.
I did solo escorts (outcalls from brothels) for years, but stopped after a girl I know almost got killed.
The brothel security would know where we are and we had to call when we got there and call when we finished the job and they'd call a cab to pick us up.
I personally never had any dangerous outcalls, just a few losers here and there.
Working on the streets there was no security at all and I did get taken advantage of at times badly in ways that I would never put up with or let anyone get away with in a brothel, which is why I believe sex work should be legalized everywhere.
Luckily I am tough and was living on the streets at the time so took alot less shit than many girls would and most guys just want to get off.
But it's pure luck on the streets whereas brothels and even escorts are so much safer.
With the b&d work, guys would call on my exes work phone, we didn't answer private numbers so we would always have a number for the guy.
Many clients were regs because my ex is a well known and experienced mistress and they are hard to come by these days.
We would give them the address once we knew they weren't screwing us over and then set up a time and day with them.
Most guys who want much of the stuff we did are not the threatening type, and since the guys were coming to us we were much safer because there was not much they could do to us, my ex still does it on her own.
She did get stalked once, but I think that's all that's happened in 11 years of working.
I always carried something for protection along with me and I am very good at holding my ground and having the upper hand, which you have to do.
You have to always make sure to get money up front, there are obviously ways clients can act towards you that will give you a heads up all is not kosher.
Escort is going to see a client at their place or a hotel or some other prearranged place rather than them coming to you.
A brothel is a place where a bunch of women work and guys come in and choose who they want to see and there are rooms in the brothel that you do the jobs in.
FYI: Loz, you're the friend I was referring to. ;)
i was going to make a new thread asking this, but since everyone is paying so much attention i have a quick question for those of you who have identified as sex workers. for a social work class i'm taking on anti-oppressive social work, we have to do a huge project in which we are responsible for researching and developing an advocacy plan for a typically exploited group. based on how much i admire and adore those of you in the sex work industry who have shared your stories with me so often over the years, i convinced my group that we should focus on sexual exploitation of women, and sex workers in particular.
that sounds like we are saying "sex work=awful life" but that isn't the case. it is more of a look we're taking at the society at large who stigmatizes and oppresses women in the sex industry through unfair legal issues (which vary like crazy but often put the blame on the worker rather than those who use her services, the "agency" or whoever the worker is working for), societal barriers including issues around poverty and such that locate sex work in certain areas and certain ethnic groups, lack of representation for sex workers rights and freedoms at the political level that encourages their status as a "exploited group," and so on.
what i was wondering about those of you who have posted here, is if i can use your words (credited to you, to whichever name you'd want to be known by) to show my class and my prof and the govt agencies we're required to submit our work to (as practice for the "real life" lobbying we'll do later on in our careers) what *real* sex workers are like. all the info i'm reading, and there has been a lot of it, has "they are" and "they say" and all the rest of it. thats meaningless and pretty contradictory to do, to define the group you are supposedly trying to empower, so i would really like to avoid it.
i'd show you exactly which parts i'd want to use, and what the context they'd be used in, so you can be sure your words wouldn't be used against you or in a way that made you appear like someone you are not. i just think it would be a very refreshing thing to include commentary from women who are intelligent and badass and not afraid to speak up for themselves. let me know!
(sooooooo sorry this is so wordy, i am NOT trying to hijack this thread, and hey maybe it will help open up more discussion)
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