bonding with baby

i never really worried about the whole bonding thing. i assumed it would happen naturally at some point. the second i saw her i felt an attachment to her, because i knew that was who was living in me for all those months, more like a physical attachment than emotional. the only time i had even the slightest concern about bonding was when we were having troubles breastfeeding, i had heard so many times that breastfeeding is what really bonds mommy and baby. i knew for sure that this wasnt something i had to worry about when i fell asleep with her in my arms, when i woke up we looked at eachother and it seemed perfectly natural that this little girl id only known for a day was snuggled up next to me.

This is a topic close to my heart. And also a topic close to a large amount of pain & bad memories.

Firstly I guess I want to say bonding as a concept can be a hard one to get your head around, and there's a whole pile of stuff in parenting books about it that don't match reality. You measure yourself against the books & others and you come up short, which in turn seems like something thats only going to make the journey harder.
Ignore anything writen by Klaus & Kennel, Bowby -their research is absolute shite and misuses science, uses tiny samples and is dripping with ridiculous Eurocentric value judgements.

I don't believe bonding is this instant bursting of love & knowing and feeling of connectedness with your kids.
I think its quite normal for a mother to love their kids, yeah, care for them properly, but not feel like they know them, not always enjoy them. Gawd, especially with babies. I've said it before heaps (no doubt others too) but its hard to feel a deep connection with someone who has and still may have a devastating toll on your body, cries for no apparent reason inspite of your best efforts, doesn't speak your language, keeps you on atrocious sleep patterns, so on and so forth. Some parents (okay, me) fins that while babies may be cute they aren't likeable and enjoy their kids more when they are older.

Sometimes what can look like non-bonded behaviour can be an issue of interpretation.
Some folks put on more of a public act, 'look at me I'm a great parent' others are more shy and may appear reticent around others and keep the gushy love stuff in private.
With the class I grew up in the 'public/private parenting' was more of the latter. Sadly if these folks found themselves under the spotlight of professions they were at a detriment.
Also we don't know when we watch a parent whats been going on for them. Maybe they seem exhausted, stressed, not interested in baby. But maybe they have no help whatsoever.
The few amounts of times I would go to my mothers house when my eldest was a baby I would sit down with a coffee and the paper and completely ignore him. Because for once - I didn't have to! It was a rare luxury, some women never have this.
He mightn't be a great example cause of issues I'll get to later.

I believe the biggest concern is not the baby, becuase times on their side. Its the mother. I believe that its hard to give love when you hate yourself. When you've known nothing but shitty treatment from others. Well it was my experience.
Coming in and saying "well you should be singing to your baby" when it takes all your energy not to kill yourself, kinda pointless.
If I was concerned about someone I would give them energy. Talk about PPD and its signs. Mention my concerns, but from the perspective of "becuase of xyz I am worried for you, you don't seem to be enjoying your baby or being a mother" what would help? how can we make this better?

My second and third children I bonded with quickly. My second, J, was born to my wife, so straight off I had a way easier time of it! When I held him in my arms I felt "so this is you" he was gorgeous. Straight away I felt protective, caring. Love grew steadily. My daughter, T, I had a great birth, painfree at home in water, midwives only there at the last moment, I felt in charge, powerful. I felt a rush as she was born, a burst of feelings. I wasn't expecting that cause I thought it was bullshit! Like with J I felt caring and love grew steadily. Not straight away mind, but it was a nice unhindered process.

But my first was a completely different story.
I had an awful, awful pregnancy. I was extremely poor, experienced a violent attack when I was 3 months pregnant, no friends, folks told me to abort then disappeared. Isolated, depressed. I'm sure many will relate.
I partnered late in pregnancy. I birthed at a hospital where I was treated terribly, ordered to lay on my back even though I wanted an active birth, talked to like shit or like I wasn't there, painful VEs where a med student
& doctor compared what they thought my dilation was, back and forth. I existed as merely a hole, not a person. I was given pethidene(stadol), they wouldn't let me have gas. I still felt pain but was immobilised by the drugs.
While I was in second stage I was talked about dismissively and without respect that I could hear "young ones can't do this, do that"
It peaked with an unnecessary agonising fucked up episiotomy that was unconsenting. I have never felt anything so excrusiating, especially as she cut after the contraction.
Fuck I was even saying no.
The student midwife hadn't done one before, she needed to get her numbers. Due to that episiotomy I was in pain for over a year. Sometimes even now I get an ache there. I have permanent nerve damage and a huge scare still, that was eight years ago this July.
So when that big moment came that I became a mother I felt nothing.
No burst, just "oh its over".
I didn't give a shit.
They intubated him unnecessarily too, his apgars were 9,10, intubabtion was unnecessary. But the student needed top get those numbers up to.
I was anxious to leave the hospital but my son caught an infection due to unhygenic practices so I stayed 4 days while he had IV antibiotics.
I just felt under seige in there.
I got home and I had no one I could talk about my horrible birth to. I was in a new and not so warm relationship.
I had no real friends, no support, no one.
I stayed isolated.
I continued to hate myself and feel that every little thing I would do would fuck my child up.
If I went out (difficult as I didn't drive and there was crap public transport) I felt examined, paranoid, still under siege.
I heard judgemental comments, I didn't have anything to balance them to shake them off.
Even before I became a mother I was depressed. I had survived two boyfriends trying to kill me. I had been raised in an abusive home. I had been homeless. Basically I was shit, and no one ever said otherwise.
Motherhood wasn't a turning point straight away, it was further concrete on top of me, y'know. More things that kept me down.
Before I was just a fucked up person who hated themself, now I was full of guilt because obviously I was incapable of raising this blameless baby.
Anyway, delusional thoughts, self hatred, relationship shit.
I had PPD.
It stayed for more than 2 yrs.

Was I unbonded with M?
Its hard to say. Certainly I felt such guilt. Wanted the best for him. But couldn't do it. I did all the necessary care and held him close... But still he spent the first 2 years of his life alone during the day with a mother who cried.. wished she wasn't there.. self hating rather than content. I held him constantly when he was a baby but out of anxiety & fear. I felt I had no rights or choices. I wasn't me.
I loved him on some level but to truly love you have to be a whole person, free, safe. I wasn't those things. I wasn't really there. I was at best, numb. At worst, suicidal.

Back to what would I do if it was someone I knew.
I would find out what she needs, does she feel proud to be a mother or does she only hear that shes fucked up? Does she need to feel that she is awesome and being a mum is an achievement? Does she have access to councelling? If this is out of her comfort what about a friendly coffee & chat on a regular basis? I would be honest about PPD, my experinces and how it can actually get better.
Is she in an abusive relationship?

I would go the mother mentor pathway, role modelling assertiveness and empowerment.

Thank you Maja, that was a great post. This topic is difficult for me still so I cannot speak in such openess as you do but I wanted to let you know I appreciated your honesty becuase one of the biggest issues is how the rest of the parenting community reacts when you are not instantly bonded or god forbid, not even happy to be pregnant.

The stigma of this topic is stifling.

i dont feel like i ever bonded with riley as a baby. i love my kid with all my heart, and couldnt imagine life without her, but i never got that googly ga ga feelings over my baby. it just never happened.

Thank you for letting me know candy-eyed, I'm sorry for the struggles you went through.

I'm happy at least one person read it.

You're right the stigma is huge, and women are suffering because of it. Too scared to reach out because of this culture of judgement that is too quick to label us bad mothers.

I was too shitscared, what would have anyone said to me anyway? more skin to skin contact, more breastfeeding? I was doing those things around the clock and they aren't exactly great PPD cures. :roll:
Take care.

my mother had six children and loved having babies, she loved kids and wanted a whole house full. she also had bad ppd, as did i ( i wouldnt say bad because i know mama's who went through so much worse, but to me it was bad) i felt so much pressure from my mother to act a certain way when my daughter was born. when she came out i cried and cried, it was just a rush of emotion. but as the crueling days went on i felt no love towards someone who didnt talk to me or even seem to like me.

i think it wasnt till recent ( almost 2 years ) to feel in love with my child. we still struggle but i do feel connected but not as much as i think i should.

i work so much i never see her. i could forget about her and not see her for days on end. but i try my hardest to seek time out to spend with her because it always makes me feel better more bonded.

i think bonding with babies is so over rated and over infesized. your kid does not speak your language or even have any redeeming qualities other than being yours.

maja said it better than i could. its a load of crock and it does nothing productive but make mothers feel inadiquate and less than if they dont feel like the mothers on tv.

i wish they would stop including that in parenting and mothering books because it doesnt seem to be true for anyone i know and building a relationship with anyone takes time and lots of it, love at first sight isnt true and same goes for your child.

Oh gawd do I ever agree, not much redeeming qualities. Like thats why they're cute, right? Cause if they weren't they'd have no chance. :lol:

Absolutely.
It is just anther sort of relationship, more important more involving whatever but the same relationship mechanics (if you will) apply. You need to feel safe, to belong, to feel drawn to, to have reasopn to attach to that person.

I had a hard time bonding with my son. I had severe PPD and just thinking back to those times is difficult and brings on so much guilt and pain.

For most of my son's first year of life I was the only one home with him during the day and because of my insomnia, day is when I'd finally fall asleep. My son slept in my moms room after the first few months because I wasn't able to get any sleep with him in mine. My mom would feed him in the morning before she left for work, but the rest of the day until 4pm when BD came home, he'd be left alone in his crib for hours because I couldn't wake up some days until around 1pm to 4pm.

I hated myself, I felt suicidal at times, I didn't want to neglect my son, but I just couldn't take care of him like I should've. I couldn't even take care of me. I had no appetite and barely ate. I didn't clean the house or anything, I was too tired to even walk to the mailbox. I barely ever got out of the house.

There were some days were I was able to wake up early, but I'd find myself so tense and frustrated whenever my son cried or needed his diaper changed. A few times I screamed at him to stop crying. I started having panic attacks and I was angry and frustrated all the time. A day didn't go by without me feeling like screaming and wishing that wasn't my life. I remember crying almost everynight to BD telling him that I hated my life, I was so unhappy. Some mornings when he was about to leave for work I'd try to keep him at home because I didn't want to be alone with my son with no one there to help. I felt isolated because all my friends would be out doing whatever they do and I was stuck in the house feeling hopeless and worthless and unable to care for my own needs nevermind my sons.

I was withdrawn and when friends called I usually wouldn't pick up the phone or I'd end the call quickly because I didn't want to take about my issues for fear of judgement and I didn't want to hear about their fun weekends and try to pretend to be happy for them when I was hurting inside and wishing I had their life instead.

When I finally got back on medicaid my BD scheduled an appointment for me to see a doctor and I went on anti-depressants and a medication to help me fall asleep at a normal hour of the night. After a few months my PPD improved and I eventually got over the insomnia. Eventually I decided to get a job because I needed to be out of the house, I just couldn't handle it. My mom and I switched places, she stayed home and took care of my son while I worked and that's how it still is today and he's 3 years old now.

My son and I don't have a typical parent-child bond, he's much closer to my mom, but as bad as it sounds, I'm okay with it because I still can't be the mother he deserves. I regret that I was never able to bond well with him and I wish we were closer, but I'm thankful that he's a part of my life and I wouldn't change that.

Wow, Suzaan, thank you for that candid and truthful post. I think becuase,as a society, we are indoctrinated from early childhood to see mothering as some beautiful, flowers in a feild, white flowing dress, happy baby/mama crock of total shit.

We are told and expected to feel a certain way and are ostasized and outcasted when we don't so not many women reach out for help. Time after time I would say to my partner or my mother or my freinds, "I can't do this, I don't want to do this" and not a single person listened to me. With blind ignorance and fear, they assumed that once that baby arrived and I held her, saw her, I would change my mind, become magically bonded.

Like I would somehow forget that I felt pressured to continue the pregnancy or that despite how her smile is a reminder of peace to me, I didn't want to change another diaper or nurse another mouth.

People assume since you have a uterus, you must be maternal and that ignorance and dillusion is the most hurtful to all.

I came to GM for the sole purpose of trying to find out WHY I wasnt bonding with my second child.

When I had Bella, I bonded immediately, with no problems, no hesitation, reservations, etc. Easy as pie. I had little support during my pregnancy, was dirt poor, but I still felt that instant bond.

My second pregnancy had no ill-feelings. I wanted the baby, I was married and at the time my marriage was OK. But after he was born, things were terrible. I did not feel like his mother.

In the weeks that followed I would pray that he would just dissapear. I honestly put my hands on him and prayed they way people in church pray for physical healing. I never felt like hurting him, and I was able to meet his physical needs just fine, but emotionally I felt like I was baby-sitting. I co-slept and I nursed exclusively, those did nothing to forge a bond.

Gavin was born less than 2 months after Andrea Yates drowned her children. Even though I didn't think I was at risk for violent behavior, I was afraid that if I talked to a counselor, s/he way over-react and Bella would be taken away.

At about 6 months, I asked my husband if we could give him up for adoption. I explained that as a person, he deserves to be loved and I jsut couldn't do it. My husband freaked out, told me I was a bad mother, etc.

Someone at church told me I needed to try harder to treat my kids the same, that my lack of feelings were obvious.

One of my neighbors asked me if I loved my daughter more.

I finally bonded with Gavin a little after he turned 3. Yep, 3 years of feeling like a baby-sitter! It just hit me one morning that I felt extreme love for this child, and I have not had any problems since.

As far as Julie's orginal question goes, i think not bonding is a serious problem. Every kid needs to feel loved. I was able to handle the physical needs very well, I never ignored my baby, or allowed him to go without, and I knew that he deserved love. I didn't have any notions that he was unworthy or anything.

Sometime ladies on GM say that they want counseling but can't afford it or don't ahve time. I would give anything to have those 3 years of my life back. My son's early years are a shameful blur.