I've noticed lately that alot of mamas on her feel like blaming others for the problems that they've had with school and work situations, and while I realize that sometimes things are beyond your control, alot of the times I think that we need to take a look inside and realize that there are plenty of oppurtunites out there for everything, from going back to school to getting that killer job you've always wanted, but you can't sit around and wait for them to fall in your lap the real world doesn't work like that, you actually have to go and seek these things out.
Alot of us have been there, alot of us have gone to college, and/or gotten the jobs that we wanted, and I won't lie, at least for me it took alot of hard work and sacrifice, but I'm there today because of it. Maybe we can start a thread about how we did it, and what worked for us.
I have to agree that "looking inside" and having a positive attitude about things is a serious way to start off on the right path...to getting that job or finishing your degree.
I became pregnant right after my freshman year of college (June 2002). I went to school that fall semester and took off the following spring in order to give birth (I was due in mid-March so it was a bad time to try to finish out that semester as well...not knowing how my birth would go). I went back to school the following fall, with a seriously renewed attitude toward school. I have never had monetary help from my parents to go to school, and there are SO many grants, loans, and scholarships out there to help. I received a $4000 scholarship this year which definitely put a dent in my tuition and living expenses.
I will graduate in May with my BS in biology, and it took a lot of perseverence, above anything else.
I know that in Minnesota, there is www.mnworks.org that has a ton of job listings (I bet they have them for most other states since they also have one for North Dakota). Most colleges have websites and financial aid offices that you can call to get information and help on going to school and affording it. Of course, in the US, filing the FAFSA at www.fafsa.ed.gov is extremely important to find out what you're eligible for, and most schools require this.
I've been trying to think of a responce to this post because it made me really angry and I was trying to put my finger on why I had that reaction.
here's the thing. This site has a lot of women on this site who have varying amounts of privilages and are in various points of self empowerment. This site has a bunch of women who both write encouraging words to other women who make posts about hardships they are facing and then in turn write about their hardship and other women respond to them.
I write here when I feel helpless in my life and feel like I don't have options, reading women comiserate with me and encourage me, telling me that they have been there, or are there, and that I do have options gives me hope.
If you feel like there are to many posts about feeling helpless why don't you make a post about feeling empowered and thus empower, rather than complain about it and make those of us who don't always feel like we CAN do what we want with our lives for various reasons feel like shit.
Personally, I feel REALLY empowered when it comes to personal relationships -- hense the reason that I make the most of my posts there, but I feel really helpless right now when it comes to school and carrer. I don't know how I am ever going to get to study what I want to study, rather than my degree program. I do not think that i will ever be able to go to Grad school. I don't think that I will be able to do anything other than the job that I am going to go to school for.
So, what do I do? I write empowering posts about personal relationships and write hopless posts (mostly on lj) about my school and job prospects.
Forgive me if this sounds pissy. I'm massivly stressed out (over school and money issues) and feel rather stuck in my life right now, and this is hitting me on a very sore spot.
all I am saying is with an attitude like that it is hard to get anywhere,
Postivity goes a long way in making things work. I am just starting back at school, and honestly at the begining I had the same thoughts you did kat, but i had to approach the situation postively and bust my ass going to job interviews to line up a job at nights so that i could attend school, and bust my ass to get into the program, but now things have fallen into place, but not by me sitting on the internet all "this will never work," cause if that is the attitude you have, your probably right....
I'm with kat on this. I agree its great to have a positive attitude, but lets face it, we can't be positive all the time, and venting about something and receiving encouragement is a great way to get back to feeling positive and like you can do it.
I'm not saying that it isn't. But it doesn't take alot to approach things postively, I know I've had my fair share of rough patches, but some smart girl told me, bad attitude breeds failure, and I'm a firm believer in that, no matter what you are talking about.
this is what I live by, and why I feel like anyone can accomplish whatever they want.
I really really agree with kat on this. I also believe in the power of positive thinking, but girlmom is a place to vent. this is a place to go to when you need to be reassured that classism, racism, sexism ageism whatever obstacle you see in your way actually does exist and you're not just making shit up. then yeah, it's also a place to go to find people who not only recognized the same obstacles but overcame them. this is not the place to come to be told to quit whining about it and that if you're having difficulty it's because you're not taking enough personal responsibility. that feels really shitty and a little bit like telling someone to find their own damn bootstraps.
i would like to see a thread that shares how we've been able to create success in our lives. I'm very proud of my school and parenting accomplishments. but not if it starts off with a first you got to get off your ass and quit your whining post.
this post certainly has some "bootstraps" undertones, no?
in an ideal world, maybe i'd agree with what you are saying tricia, and i can definitely understand the frustration with feeling like people can't see what's right in front of them, but the point is that in real life, people sometimes CAN'T see what's right in front of them. maybe they need a kick in the ass. maybe they need to vent a bit. maybe they need someone to guide them through the process. we can't all be sally sunshine all the time, and i think insinuating that everyone just needs to put up and shut up is pretty dangerous. this is a safe space for mamas to get things off their chests, things they might not be able to say IRL because they feel they have to keep up appearances. and i'm personally not a fan of this type of thread because as soon as it goes up, all the mamas that have posted recently are thinking, "she's talking about me...they think i'm a whiner..." and the chances of them feeling comfortable here again are reduced.
getting one's ass in gear and getting shit done, and venting, whining, and woe is me"ing are not mutually exclusive. i'm doing the things i need to do, but that doesn't mean i'm not freaking out occasionaly, throwing a few fits, and asking questions others might deem stupid or get "sick of."
kat mentioned privilege, and i think it bears repeating. sometimes getting shit done the way you did isn't as easy for other people, through no fault of their own. one huge example that comes to mind is depression. another is lack of support, or lack of confidence. i'd much rather a mama post something that may annoy you and others than feel lost, confused, and intimidated to the point that she never goes for what she wants.
and because this post simply begs for this question to be asked....what would the "positive" approach to the frustration with "woe is me" posts be? not this, i'd think. had you approached this from a "what could help the mamas making those posts?" perspective rather than a "what's bugging tricia today?" one, maybe i could get behind it, but my response to this is my response to quite a lot of other criticisms aimed at various other spots on the internet.....if you don't like it, don't click it.
"Alot of us have been there, alot of us have gone to college, and/or gotten the jobs that we wanted, and I won't lie, at least for me it took alot of hard work and sacrifice, but I'm there today because of it. Maybe we can start a thread about how we did it, and what worked for us."
This is a good idea.
heh, i started responding before i saw your post seyva...i suppose you mentioning bootstraps in your post also is an answer to the question that started off mine!
and that was the purpose of this thread, see the 1st response...
and it doesn't take privelge to look at things positivly or work hard,
and you can talk about depression all you want, I have it and worked through it without meds and/or conseuling.
If you want something bad enough you find away.
but sometimes people need to be told bluntly that they need to look right in front of them
.. then respond to the "woe is me" posts encouraging women and offering solutions. Posts like this doesn't inspire or empower, or really get anything done at all, so I'm not really seeing the point here.
And considering yer an older mama, maybe you should recognize that role in itself and not tell newer and younger women what they should or should not be posting or doing?
I'm sorry if the fact that some women haven't yet found their strength to accomplish all that you have, annoys you.
if the point of the post was to be empowering and inspiring, perhaps a different subject line should have been selected. because what i took from the post was "i did it without any whining, so you should be able to as well" which really isn't productive or what GM is about. (and i use the term whining not because i think venting or discussing obstacles is whining, but because the OP, by using the phrase "woe is me," cast those things as being inherently negative).
"but sometimes people need to be told bluntly that they need to look right in front of them"
when that happens, go for it, but why cut them off before they even start? i'd rather deal with some obvious concerns than have mamas thinking, "damn, if i post this are they going to think i'm being stupid or complaining?"
"and it doesn't take privelge to look at things positivly or work hard, "
it doesn't necessarily, but it sure helps. it's a lot easier to be positive the less shit you have to deal with, no? the point of what i'm saying isn't that one must have a certain amount of privilege to do it, but that sometimes just being able to do it IS a privilege. you're generalizing your experience to everyone else, and i don't think that's fair.
"and you can talk about depression all you want, I have it and worked through it without meds and/or conseuling. "
why the snarkiness?
and while i'm glad you were able to work through your depression in a way that was successful for you, since your statement could come off judgy, i want to make sure everyone reading knows that there is absolutely nothing wrong with meds or counseling. both have worked wonders for many people and can be really awesome tools for recovery and maintainence.
the problem i had with the original post is mirrored in the phrase i quoted above, about no meds or counseling. to me, both are saying, "i did it myself without any help, you should too," as though needing a kick in the ass, a therapist, meds, or a hand-holder are bad things. they aren't. and while you may be sick of those things, i'm perfectly willing to help provide any of them to someone who needs them.
"And considering yer an older mama, maybe you should recognize that role in itself and not tell newer and younger women what they should or should not be posting or doing?
I'm sorry if the fact that some women haven't yet found their strength to accomplish all that you have, annoys you."
word naivete. i haven't been back for long and already i am so annoyed by the more established, older mamas acting annoyed with younger, newer mamas for not being at the place they're currently at, or were certain they were at at that age/stage. Girlmom isn't an old girls club or a council of elders, so why do some of the older mamas feel they get to say what goes and how?
I think that rants can be validated though. You don't have to be a completely negative person to see that sometimes sucky things happen. Yeah it's best not to focus on them, but really you don't know if the person posting about it is getting it all out and then going about their day like it's brand new again. I know for me, as positive as I try to be there are times I just need to complain or whine about the stuff I don't like and can't control.
"If you want something bad enough you find away."
and okay can we talk about the privilege inherent in that statement? it seems full of the "american dream" bullshit that if you just work hard enough, you'll get there. I'm an upper middle class nondisabled white girl. I've found the ways to get what I want, and been able to follow through with them, but I don't feel okay saying that other people who don't get where i'm at were simply lacking in determination or motivation. That sounds way too much to me like the old lines about how, "well if they'd just help themselves, this wouldn't be a problem" that are used to write off the valid concerns and issues facing minority groups of all kinds.
For mamas who are members of groups that have been historically denied power and dominance, what do you think? If I am off the mark here I'd love to know.
You know Tricia, if you were saying these things in RL id tell you to fuck off!
This is a SAFE PLACE for young/teen mothers to express how the are feeling, dealing, and ask for help.
When someone writes about how hopeless they feel, their obstacles , and hardships it because they need to release that bad energy and hear that they arent the only ones. Not to mention, as a teen mom , we get told A LOT that our failures are because of our momma status.
You just single handedly made many moms feel like shit on this thread. What makes you so superior that you have to complain about someone elses(who you dont even know!) life and chooses?
You can say that this was meant to empower all you want, but it wasnt, it was meant to make people feel bad so that theyd stop posting the post that annoy you Because if you truely wanted to help, you would have done whats been suggested already, write empowering responses to these girls who are having hard times.
I don't post here at GM much anymore and this type of crap is exactly the reason why. :x
First of all the title of this forum is:
School and Work
Daycare bill got ya down? Hate your bio teacher's tests? Rocking the semester? Boss wants you to work overtime and the baby sitter just quit? Talk about it here!
I'm really not sure how to even respond to this... how is this exactly going to help anyone?? Especially mamas that may need help? Cuz if I was a new member reading a post like this I almost certainly would never post here with a complaint again. I really can't see how a post with this tone would do anything but silence a lot of the newer members and people who are already struggling.
I agree with what Julie said.
I absolutly did not take this post to be something empowering and inspiring, but rather to kevetch about posts that other people are posting.
Clearly, from your comments, you ment it to be inspiring. Take a step back from it, though, and check out why we are reacting to it the way we are.
I do believe, to an extent, in the power of positive thinking. However, there is a certain amount of reality one has to face. Just because I "think positivly" doesn't mean that all my problems are going to be solved once and for all. It means that I will have an edge on solving them. And, even though I belive in thinking positivly, that doesn't mean that I am not going to acknowlege my feelings of dispare and hoplesness, fear and anger.
And, as another point that you hit that is really painful to me right this second, I have been dealing with depression sense I was 10. I have tried with help and without help, and so far all of it has not gotten me very far. I really am so glad that you were able to deal with it, but I am having such a hard time with it right now.
To hear you say, essentially, that this is something that I should just be able to suck up and deal --- jesus, I can't suck it up and deal. I'm bawling as I'm writing this right now, and it's turning into a waaay OT thing, but I wish with all my heart that I could just deal with this, just be done with it, get over it, whatever. I don't know what's wrong with me that I can't. I don't know why everything I do for it doesn't work. I wish I did. I think it's awesome you had that strength and I don't know why I don't.
i just want ot reply to this statement, cause I'm older now, but i've always felt this way,
I wish someone would have told me this when I was 17 and scared shitless pregnant.
Just because I'm older now doesn't mean that I don't remember what it was like to be 17 and pregnant,
I agree with you, sometimes it's just nice to get things out... This site is about supporting eachother, and helping eachother through times like this, providing information and tips... I think this post could make some people feel a bit upset (some have posted that it did) because not everyone can just always see the positive, always find the light at the end of every tunnel. Sometimes a good rant is all it takes, if you don't like the girls attitudes, then dont read their posts anymore. Or take the suggestion another mom had, and find something positive YOU can post on...
Right now, I can't really respond to this thread using a logical argument, all I can say is how it made me feel.
This thread has certainly caused a downward spiral of me feeling horrible about myself. I can't help but take it personally. even though I haven't posted a "woe is me" thread lately, I've certainly been feeling that way. But this thread makes my feelings of self worth plummet. I constantly wonder why everyone else can do certain things that I can't. For example, get through a college admissions interview without a panic attack, or figure out how the heck to apply for student loans (and yes I have asked for help, it wasn't enough). Damn it, if I could figure out how "normal" people do things, I'd do them. For some reason I just don't "get it".
I can't just suck it up and get over my depression. I hate the situation that I'm in right now, and yes it was my choices that put me in this situation. But, all the same I feel stuck. Right now it's all I can do to get myself out of bed, with or without medication. And you're telling me that I need to take control of that? Like I haven't been trying since I was 8? I mean, if you have the magic secret to cure depression, I'd love to hear it. I've certainly tried everything else.
But your experiences may be different than someone elses. You may have needed this kind of post but it hurt others. Just because you share something with someone (younger pregnancy, depression, etc) doesn't mean that what works for you, or what you did will work for everyone.
I am going to echo what others have said. I am one of those "weak, whiney" mamas who needs someone to hold my hand and gentle me through things. That doesn't make me, or anyone else who needs emotional support to get things done, weaker than you. It just makes me DIFFERENT. I'm sure glad I didn't post here all my childcare issues here. I didn't know I could find a 24 hour daycare for when I was in class. It took a friend telling me I could do x,y, and z in a LOVING and compassionate way to help me figure it all out. And I'm an older mama.
I agree delphiki. I think we all have reasons where we need to be "whiney." Yes, I'm 23... but it can still be hard. I graduate in May from college and that's scary. I was 18 in high school when I got pregnant and that was scary, too. Having a positive attitude yes, is helpful - but sometimes it's okay to feel pissed off sometimes about something... and I don't think it makes you sound whiney.
Just because you remember it doesn't mean you're still living it, and doesn't mean that this site is geared for mamas who remember being young.
Okay guys, I think that's enough criticizing Tricia's motives for making this thread. I think she is aware that her wording may not have come off the best and she has said her intentions are to help, so don't you think it would be better for us to continue this with #1 stories of how we did it and #2 help/resources for people who want to? Should we start a new thread with our stories and resources?
I didn't get the vibe that Tricia was trying to be rude, but I am a person who needs the "kick in the ass" to get things done, and I've never been someone who wants people to act "sensitive" toward her. Sensitivity makes me wallow in self-pity. How can we balance the different needs of women and the approach that works best in helping them through things or encouraging them?
I wanted to also mention again the power of positive thinking. While I don't expect that everyone is saying "my life is great" to themselves all the time, I do think this is one of those "fake it 'til you make it" things. I actually remember the year I started not letting myself dwell on the negatives and how much my entire demeanor and personality has changed since then. Not only does it help me succeed in school, but opens me up to new social relationships that I'd have never considered. People are more approachable when their outlook (even if it's fake!) is "I'm going to take on the world" instead of "the world is out to get me". So how can we get people there? I don't know, but telling myself to get my ass out of bed in the morning and just get through the day helps. Getting up at 5 AM every day, I seriously have to yell at myself in my head to wake up some days, so yeah, a more kick in the ass brutal approach is what works for me.
Also, I'm sorry I didn't reply to this earlier as it has been getting out of hand, but I spent late last night throwing my entire stomach contents up and have been trying to take it easy today.
It sounds like we all agree that we have to combine sensitivity towards those who are feeling low with the positivity that might help them--and ourselves--get out of ruts.
I think enough mamas have come out to address the problem with the appraoch tricia took to this topic, so I'm gonna lock it so we can move on, and I'll start a new thread about the challenges we face/d, how we have overcome challenges in the past, and the things we need help with today.