Most of us probably know this, but because there's so much miseducation surrounding these issues, I'd like to briefly address some of the history relevant to the question I'm going to be asking. Any additional info that anyone else wants to add would be more than welcome.
Along with the murder and relocation of whole nations of native people, the white founders of north america (and other nations whose history I know very little about) did their best to demolish the culture of native peoples. By means of missionary schools, systematic rape, criminalization of cultural practices, and countless other tactics, those who were not slaughtered were relocated and forced to assimilate. In this process of forced assimilation, native children were raised to by whites, and half-white children were born to native women. Down through the generations, less and less (if any) native culture was transmitted to these children, and the stories of their people were lost. Thus, today there are "white" people in north america with nothing more than some dim awareness that somewhere back in their lineage is a native mother. People that look white, were raised white, and identify as white. People who are completely ignorant about the cultures of their native ancestors. I am one such person.
Now here is my question:
Does this dim awareness of native ancestry mean anything? Obviously, it would be wrong to self-identify as NA and co-opt the struggles of native folks while recieving all the privilege that comes with whiteness and having an identity and social reality unrelated to native ancestry. But knowing that native ancestry and culture was strategically bred out of my lineage, do I, and other folks in similar situations, have any role in understanding and validating the living culture of our ancestries? Or should advocacy be handled exactly the same as it would be if there were no such known ancestry?
Any thoughts?
I don't have time to answer all of this, except one part of your post that really bothers me.
emeraldfirefly said: Thus, today there are "white" people in north america with nothing more than some dim awareness that somewhere back in their lineage is a native mother.
this perpetuates a massive stereotype, and why some, not all, natives get upset about the random white person claiming heritage.
why is ALWAYS the mother?! or the grandmother or the great-grandmother?!!!!
don't men ever come into the equation?
no, because of the stereotype people have read of the doe-eyed "Indian princess" that the white men fell in love with and had to carry off from her tribe to give her a wonderful life on the prairie. I mean, after all, a white woman would never lower herself to has sex with an Indian. This is why I secretly question a lot of the random great-great-grandmother claiming.
my lineage is down from my father, which is one of the many reasons I don't (can't, actually, descent is matrilineal in mine) enroll, but also because I don't feel connected, really, to the tribe itself. I make a mean-ass frybread and know the stories, but I didn't grow up on the rez and didn't suffer (because my skin is fair) the crap that my fullblood cousins did. I don't practice the tribal religion, and I'm pretty disconnected at this point. Therefore, though I DO have the amount of blood quantum necessary to enroll,i don't because i feel I am appropriating my own ancestry to fit my needs. I consider myself a white ally with native blood because of those things. that's where I stand on advocacy.
However, I definitely do not speak for everyone and this is a personal thing.
I hear what you're saying. I gave that some thought when I wrote that, and I chose to go ahead and write that because I am a woman, and I think matrilineally.
I apologize for perpetuating that myth, and I totally see how I did that.
yeah, sorry, I reread what I wrote again, and it sounded even stupider that time. :oops:
I totally played into that, and I feel like a moron.
It's fucking hard to bring up issues surrounding race and culture, having so much to continue unlearning. I knew I was gonna say something wrong in writing that, and I'm there's more in there that could be disected. I hope that my question is not lost in it though.
it was not my intention at all to make you feel stupid! I'm sorry if that came off harsh.
seriously, I am totally all about people unlearning and knowing more about native cultures, because awareness breeds tolerance, y'know? and I know it's hard to come in to this discourse and not step on toes. I mean, I "met" xnaivetex here, and did not know anything about the Canadian side of things- I had always assumed that they were much better over there for natives, cause, well, they're Canadian and have a reputation for treating the people better than the US does. what a surprise I had.
I can't answer your question about dim native ancestry, really, because every tribe is different and views are also different as I have seen. Some are really cool and encourage it; some see it as co-option of them and can't understand why someone would want to.
I'm gonna try to answer your question with a few questions of my own.
1. what would finding out about your native ancestry mean in your life, and what would you choose to do with it? (I am asking this you in a general sense, not you specifically.)
2. would you research and adopt at the same time the other parts of your heritage, or is this just native specifically that you want to know about, and here's the really important thing- if just native, why? why not French, if your great-great-great grandmother was French? I would deconstruct your motivations there and see what lies beneath.
related to that last question I asked, *I am speaking as an American here about the trend to romanticize Natives in America- I don't know how it is in Canada.* The people that romanticize the culture have some sort of weird idea of what a native must be- earthy, spiritual, horse riding spear throwers, blah blah blah. HA. my uncle is obese, loves football and hot dogs, and wouldn't know a horse if it bit him in the butt. there goes the stereotype. But because of these stereotypes I mentioned, a lot of people in America want to have Native heritage because of the dreamy, wonderful, incorrect things that they have absorbed.
Now, here's the rub. if you live near a reservation like I do, you don't find that romanticizing anywhere near as often. why? people can actually SEE what living on a reservation is like- poverty enforced by lack of govermental help, rampant health problems because of lack of health insurance, bad living conditions, et cetera. Basically, it's in your face all the time that Natives have STILL got it pretty bad around here, so who'd want to be part of that on the inside unless you were already?
I *personally* feel that unless you have a direct culture link, blood link, family link, advocacy and allies should act as sensitive white allies.
However, like I said, all tribes are different. I know there are some tribes that welcome white people that have a genuine desire to learn the culture, the religion, live with them, and essentially be as Native as the tribe. When all that's complete they're welcomed in even with no Native blood, and considered Native.
I hope that was somewhat helpful, and you get more feedback on this question, because I think it is a really good one.
You didn't make me feel stupid, don't worry. I just felt super lame for having said that. I'm glad you pointed it out though.
I totally know what you mean about the romanticization--I saw a film once made by a bunch of white yuppy new-agers (many of whom claimed to have that "dim native ancestry") about a "sweat lodge" they were running. They gave themselves names like Brave Eagle and Thunder Bear and made a lot of money off other white yuppy new-agers looking to go on "vision quests." barf. I realize there are a lot of folks out there like this.
I think you're totally right about acting as sensitive white allies. I don't think a person like myself could (or should) identify as Native in any way, nor adopt any of the customs of NA. So what am I getting at?
In my anthropology class we were talking about the film "rabbit-proof fence", which deals with a Australian policies in the 30's, and a specific part in which a government official describes how you can "breed the aboriginal out of" a lineage (I borrowed this phrase in my first post) by continually "dilluting" the blood line with whites. This obviously bears similarities to the destruction of Native Nations in North America, and it occurred to me that perhaps it would be a revolutionary change for white people whose lineage included native ancestry to take a stand in advocating for the rights of their ancestors peoples.
But then, it would probably be just as revolutionary for anyone to take that stand, huh? I guess that's the crux of my question. Does it make a difference who your great great great great great great great grandfather or mother was?
I don't know how it would apply for the rest of the world, but a friend of my mother's is an Australian Koori tribal elder, and so many of the same things happened in Australia too.
I had discussed this issue with her, and what she told me is that she would love nothing more than for everyone with even the most distant Koori ascendant to be able to identify as aboriginal so that the volume of people grouped together in that way, along with the stories they could tell of the reasons that their heritage had been hidden/denied, would be able to be a very visible symbol of the impact that the government policies of the past affected so many people living today.
That's kind of what I was getting at
I know...I just thought that you would like to know you weren't the only one who thought that way...
Please don't use lame as a derogatory term.
I always encourage people who appear white but want to get to know some lost part of their culture, or hey, even if they don't have any native blood at all - to go ahead and do it. But do it respectfully. Get in it for real, learn and unlearn just as everything else, don't step on toes, and deconstruct what you thought you knew about it.
Don't know how it is over there, but round here, everyone's accepted if they're respectful. My boss in Aboriginal Relations is as fair skinned as they come. She was adopted into a native family at a young age in another part of good old Canaduh, and wherever she goes she knows how things work, she's educated herself on different nations, she's completely respectful, and is seen as just another ole native girl. She goes to powwows, she advocates for Native Americans, she puts on many of the events here, and she's not seen any differently than anyone else. Especially now, that she's had a daughter with a native man, she's getting to know the culture a lot deeper than she ever had, and it's welcomed and encouraged.
One thing I've noticed is that blood percentage doesn't matter much to some, and never has for some people. When the gov't decided to start choosing who could be and who couldn't be native, there was a lot of discontent, because people who identified as native and were thought of as native had to be moved off the reserve because they didn't meet the blood level qualifiers the gov't had set up, ie - they were white, or close to it. Families were lost, torn apart.
I do notice though that with each generation through "mixed" relationships, culture gets more and more lost, probably for the reasons you cite, that you don't know how to go about it or what to call yourself or even if you should get into it, and I hope that more and more people do. Culture is being lost too rapidly, and the more people who want to retain it and pass it on, is good in my books. In my family, only one member remembers how to speak Carrier. The others lost their language through residential schools, adoption into white families, etc. We don't have the language because our parents lost it, and couldn't pass it on, which is why I'm trying to learn it right now. I don't want to see my culture being lost because people were too scared or standoffish to learn it, for whatever reasons, whether it's because they don't think they're native enough, or because they're scared to admit that they are.
Another stereotype is that all Natives look "native". The nation my SO is from, is all fair skinned natives. SO is full native, but he has white skin, and greeny hazel eyes. Trey is more native than I am, and he's about 20 times lighter than I am. It depends on what area you're talking about.
I think a lot of difference here definitely comes from area.
See, I don't think it should matter who your ancestors are to be able to support and advocate for NA's. Can't white people stand up for them too without having to feel a link to them? I can't remember ever hearing about how during the Civil Rights movement for black rights that white people were claiming a distant black great-grandmother in order to stand in solidarity for black rights.
I do think the impact of diaspora is important to take into account- like what naivete said, respectful learning about a culture you've been displaced from is awesome.
I thought about why I responded like I did, and it's definitely area-based. I can't speak for everyone in this area, but I know that a lot of the people don't enjoy this kind of thing.
To further on that with a little history, excuse the language, but what a lot of NA's get referred to here is "casino indians."Basically, a casino opened here a few years ago, and money started coming into the nation.
What did New York State do? Threatens and tries AGAIN to break the tax-free treaty that's been in place, like, 200 freaking years. Basically because they feel like the reserve is making too much money independently of NY that the NA's don't have to contribute. This is a big deal this year. People have got signs up on their lawns saying "Shopping at the Seneca reservation steals money from New York, its schools, and your children. Don't support theft." Which, btw, I enjoy stealing every time I see one while driving.
But yeah, the signs and the money. HELLO IRONY. who stole what when?!
Oh, and the effects that I see this casino and "stolen tax" money going to?
-health care clinics
-literacy advocacy programs
-scholarship programs
-culture workshops
-better pay for employees
-alchol and drug recovery programs and support
Yeah, they're definitely stealing the money and wasting it. Riiiight. This comes ten years after there was serious violence by the state police against Natives after they closed the boundaries of the reserve last time New York tried to break the treaty (which shut down the thruway and the two other major roads that ran though the reserve, which linked the two big cities in the area) and blockaded themselves in protest.
Which culminated in a lot of people getting beaten and nearly killed. This was 1994? 1995? This is NOT distant history!
Ok, so, to finish up, a lot of people with really long long ago ancestry and no ties to the culture and reservation tried to enroll to get casino money. And it's an ongoing problem. I think there's a lot of anger about white appropriation around here because of these things. Recently my college tried to get a seneca language department, and they refused because they would rather let the language die out than have it appropriated by white people who won't bother to learn the rest of the culture, et cetera. I was disappointed for myself but totally understood that viewpoint, in light of the politics around this for the last thirty years.
This is probably why I was so touchy about this- this is how my family feels, although i get naivete's viewpoint too, that is it worth it to let the culture and language die out because there's not enough people with "proper blood percentage" to learn it? Y'know, that whole what makes someone Native question? it's unanswerable.
That's really disgusting that people have reacted that way.
oh, and naivite, sorry about that comment.
Well, as per the 'mother' comment, it could very well be true that it's more often the mother than the father because it's more difficult to systematically rape men.
Now I for one, do get ticked off when someone claims "indian" around here because of someone generations and generations back, because around here there ARE no reservations and most of the people trying to claim that do it to be cool or try and relate to something they don't have a concept of. Like if the only reason they have NA in their blood is because of systematic rape of their great great great grandmother, and they've lost all touch with what happened or the atrocities she faced, and are only claiming it to be some type of POC (which where I live is more acceptable for the 'coolness' factor) it pisses me off. I have yet to even meet one person adopting it for a different reason. With full blood only one generation back in my family, real knowledge of reservations other than knowing the social studies book definition, I get angry when people say they have "indian" in them and you find out it's less than a sixteenth and they know diddly about the tribe or culture. I don't know how many times I've said "Cheyenne" only to have people look at me and say "what?"
Not to mention they only talk about it around thanksgiving.
They don't have to endure the racism, they don't have to endure the hatred, so they feel safe in saying they have the blood. My grandmother was from a reservation, SD's grandparents were, too. My son and my sisters and brother have the outward appearance of NA and get all the bullshit without any of the "oh that's so cool! You're so cultural!" We have to deal with being NA every day, they can shelve it until it's convenient or in their interest to mention.
So yeah, I guess it goes by the area. Who's around, are there rez, etc. It seems like the less people know about the real deal, the more they want to claim it.
Im an 1/8 cherokee, but have not pursued looking into the heritage. I feel that they[tribe/reservation] would see a privledged white girl and be .....[cant think of a word].......maybe they would think that its another hype into looking cool in the PWOC world and that I should just stay out of it? Horrible reason, but when you live near reservations and see the poverty and despair it makes you feel....bad....and Im poor, but extremely privledged compared to what they live daily.
Also, I have a friend who is...roughly between 1/4 and a 1/3 NA and collects $1500-$2000 year just because of that , but does nothing to celebrate, participate, incorporate his heritage into his life....just collects the yearly check and I have a hard time not judging that because that offends me. I think if youre registered with a tribe, benefiting from that tribe the least you can do is embrace the people and culture. But I guess its not my place to judge or be upset *shrug*
I guess I wonder, who cares what he does with the money? Nothing is going to compensate for the torture and mistreatment that Natives still endure and once that money is in his hands, he has the right to all choices associated with it (given that he doesn't infringe on the rights of others, of course).
I guess I take issue with your statment: "Also, I have a friend who is...roughly between 1/4 and a 1/3 NA and collects $1500-$2000 year just because of that" (emphasis mine).
Just because of that? So do you think it's unfair? Because it's not just becaust he's Native. It's just because he is the target of perpetual systematic discrimination and just because his direct relatives were tortured in pretty much any way imaginable.
I was 'awarded' $12, 000 shortly before my eigtheenth birthday for experiencing 3 years of molestation as a child. I spent most of it taking my friends out to dinner, helping my family with my dad's medical bills (he was dying at the time) and loaning (haha, never got it back) it to friends. Was that wrong? I mean, really, if they'd given the fucker more than a year in prison, I'd have gladly given the money back to the gov't. They didn't, they just threw me a wad of cash. Tell me, what should I have done with it, that wouldn't offend you - or anyone, for that matter. I feel that it's similar with Natives. What they have and do experience is horrible. Our quick fix is always to just throw money everywhere without fixing the actual problems. Then, of course, the privileged folk round up to say that it's not fair that "they" get a "free ride". Which only causes racism against Natives to escalate. Native just can't win, can they?
As for claiming racism because somewhere along the line you're part POC, I think it's a way to get out of responsibility for white privilege. I mean, I'm 1/8th Native. My grandmother, who died before I was born was 1/2 native, my father 1/4 and thus, I'm 1/8. I'm very slightly darker than most whites in the winter, but it's not noticeable. I'm always whiter in the summer because I avoid tans like the plague. Do I know much about my Native ancestry? No, not at all. I never considered learning about it before the past couple of years and now I have no contact with anyone who would have any info. I don't experience racism. I've never been discriminated against because of the colour of my skin. At one point in elementary school, however, when I mentioned that I was part Native, the kids in my class went around the room making what they consisdered Native noises (you know, where they pat their mouths with their hands while saying aah-aah-aah-aah). I felt like shit and didn't mention it next time (even though I remember thinking it was cool that I was part Native - can't remember why). I can't even imagine what the racism visible minorites face feels like and that is SUCH a privilege.
I NEVER CLAIMED ANY RACISM :?
I also never made a comment about how my friend SPENDS his money, just that he receives it but doesnt have any relations with the culture and I feel that since hes benefiting for being acknowledge he should want to be a part of that culture in ANY small way. See, I know what NA have been through, im 1/8, i HAVE read currect accounts of what happened, but im privledged to look, live, breath PWOC status and therefore dont feel that I would want to take any money, money WONT fix it. But to those who benefit from the money I believe that they should at least try to see what its all about, what the customs, stories, and beliefs are in their lineage. To know another culture, to be accepted by that culture is a true privledge.
My friends money? He spends in on alcohol and drugs. I dont believe I mentioned how he spent it in my first post, because that wasnt what I was posting about. Its his. I never said it wasnt fair. I dont look at those kinds of things as fair/unfair. Thats not for me to decide.
I apologize for whatever I said to offend YOU. I really dont see where I mentioned I was treated with racism because somewhere along the line im a POC. Can you please point that out so it can be clarified?
nononono, I wasn't saying that you were claiming racism (I don't think that you were), that part of my post was for the thread in general - not a response to you.
I'm sorry, I really should have made that more clear.
But really, it is up to him to spend it how he deems fit. It's not as easy as "Just be happy you can pass for native, cause you get all these really cool customs and you're accepted..". Honestly? There are days where I feel like telling people "Yes, I AM phillipino", because I'm sick of racism towards Native Americans. There are days where I want to hide the fact that I'm native, to NOT take part in the traditions because I'm oh so sick of how other people view me for it. You wouldn't believe the odd looks I get when I offhandedly mention that I'm heading to a powwow. Or a sweat lodge. Or a sharing circle. Seriously, I'm sick of it, and when someone gets sick of it, it's not a privilege to be "accepted" in the traditions - it's a burden. It takes a lot of strength to hold your head up high in the face of so much hatred and keep on rockin it native style - not everyone has that strength, and it's not up for POC to tell them that they should. For real.
(The rest of your post rocked though)
There's plenty of racism against asians. I'm not sure I understand.
Wow, we've really had different experiences. I find that most PWOC are curious but generally respectful when I participate in or describe Native traditions. The few who aren't - I'm not going to let their ignorance and closed-mindedness ruin my respect for and enjoyment of my culture.
I get money from my regional corporation. (It's a little complicated. Basically, groups of tribes in Alaska were formed in to corporations which are bonafide business entities with investiments and subsidiaries and the members of the tribes are shareholders. Mine is Arctic Slope Regional Corporation.) There is quite a bit of resentment from non-Natives and even some resentment between Natives because some corporations are more financially successful than others. Truth be told, I don't think it's an ideal arrangement, but I haven't any better ideas.
I completely agree with this. If you find out a person is Irish, do you think they are obligated to learn step dancing? Should all Italians make marinara sauce from scratch? Of course not. Then why do I have to eat muktuk?
Natives (and other cultures too) should be free to participate in all, some, or absolutely no cultural traditions. It doesn't make me any less Inupiaq to believe that muktuk tastes like a salty, oily tire. As long as I'm confessing all my Native shortcomings :wink:, I'll mention that I don't really like seal meat either, listening to drumming for too long hurts my ears, and there is not even one WIEO game at which I am remotely skilled. There, I feel better. :lol:
Ah, yes. The phenomenon of the Plastic Shaman.
Just a little side note, some racism/generalization DH has experienced...
DH is 1/2 Creek and is an alcoholic and I cannot tell you how many times people have said to me that he has a problem with alcohol because he is Native. What the fuck.
Solatido - I live in a city which is very blatantly racist against Native Americans. For real, you wouldn't understand how bad it is unless you've been here - miss wonderwall can attest to how strong the hatred against Natives is here, she lived here for a bit and was amazed at it.
Although there is racism against other races, where I am from it's not nearly as bad as racism against Natives. Some days I really do feel like seeing if I can pass for phillipino or "hawaiian" or spanish like people tell me I look like. It tends to be that people are generally nice to me, and most people end up asking what I am, and there niceness ends when they're told I'm Native.
BTW - I have a ton of Native shortcomings too. I am vegetarian for one, and I get a lot of grease from my family when every single dinner or potlatch consists of just moose meat or fish (and every single side dish has chopped up deer meat or fish), the only thing vegetarian I can eat is fry bread. Oh, and even though girls aren't supposed to drum, I was in a drum group for 2 years. The group had to use a non sacred drum whenever I played. I probably rifled a few feathers with that one.
Thank you for clarifying Revolt and To Naivete- Im sorry you face such things, I would personally be very interested in learning from a friend what those things are like.
my children have a small percentage of cherokee ancestry. i've been wanting to expose them to that part of thier culture (as well as their others, but the german and celtic side is pretty well represented as it is.) if i or their father (who is the one with native blood) don't expose them to that part of their heritage it will be lost unless they choose to seek it out as adults. bd's mom is 1/2 cherokee and the only one in their family who is most involved in that culture, i've been wanting to talk to her about but always afraid i'll come across as ignorant or disrespectful but i don't know.
on a side not the yuppy romanticism of native culture really bothers me too, i agree if you are going to embrace a culture get to know the actual people, imerse yourself in the actual culture, don't just appropriate certian traditions (like sweatlodges and making money off of it) for you own little mostly white circle.
sorry culture is not the right word there. i meant to say ancestry or herritage. sorry i was typing to fast.
I'm in a similar sitiuation, my children have Cherokee ancestry, however my husband's grandparents are no longer living and his aunts and uncles were taught to hide it and refer to themselves as 'Black Irish'. My own Grandmother (on my Dad's side) is half Chippewaw but if you ask her she's French, and she won't elaborate any further. Her mother married a French soldier and apparently cut all ties from her family (or was forced to, it's obviously a long-closed subject...).
I'm interested in doing the research, but I don't want to open old wounds for her, nor my husband's aunts and uncles. Brian is interested in his background, but at the same time he dosen't feel he should pursue it since he was raised 'white' and would be infringeing on people who have suffered greatly and rightfully harbour animosity towards people raised as he was. I want my children to know their background (and *I* want to know more about it too!) and I don't want to see the culture lost, but at the same time I also have not had to deal with the negative aspects (Brian has a little bit). Have you looked into Cherokeenation.com? It has a lot of good information.
*Chippewa, sorry!
I'm much in the same boat. My mother's parents were both full-blooded natives, who met at one of those wonderful institutions called residential schools. After 12+ years of institutionalized bigotry, they decided to abandon their culture, change their names to more anglicized versions, buy a farm and spend their lives pretending to be, of all things, Welsh. I still hear horror stories of my mother, the only of their children who was born with black hair, of the blisters she had all over her scalp because her mother bleached her hair every other week so no one would guess. Apparently, her brown-tressed siblings hair lightened enough from sunshine and lemon-juice rinsings.
Actually, my mom and her siblings weren't told they were native until after their father died, because my grandma decided he should get a proper burial, but had to try and track down his family, which was mostly a complete failure. We did discover that his parents had died in the 1960's in a car crash - but were never able to find any records of his 2 brothers at all, or anyone who had seen them since that time.
I would really, really like to at least KNOW SOMETHING about this side of my family. I mean, my dad's swedish, although his family has been here for many generations, but we still have some cultural heritage, a bit warped though it may be. We celebrated St. Lucia's day, my dad taught us about the wonders of real cheese, and I have probably consumed more herring and cod than 99% of people alive in america. His father used to read me norse myths when I was little in Swedish. But my mother's family has *no* traditions - no little holiday ceremonies, or family foods, or comforting tales. They strived so hard to fit in, to be the same, that they ended up being kind of standoutish for being bland.
I have, however, encountered alot of prejudice when trying to get in touch with the community - for looking too white, for not knowing anything, for my grandparents having chosen to abandon the community - not once has anyone ever just been neutral about my interest. I don't want a bloody award or some shit, but just a "Hey, here are some books that are at least sort of accurate about the culture." Or "here's some people you could get in touch with who know stuff." Instead, I have to go through a 2 1/2 hour explanation of how my family got cut off, why I want to get back in touch, no - I don't want money, etc.
One key thing to unlearning and learning when you benefit from white privilege though is it is not up to them to educate you. There are a ton of ways to learn what you need without expecting them to hand it to you.