:x I really can't believe how some of you are about this situation. You don't even have any sympathy for the man. And how do you know if he did or didn't commit the murders. Yall just wanted him executed because you think he did it. I wouldn't apologize for something i didn't do either. You know what i bet the majority of the people who wanted him to be executed for the murders are white. It doesn't surprise me one bit that he got executed, he's a black man! Duh!!!!!! I'm not saying that this is because of racism, but it does seem to be floating around in the air somewhere don't you think?
I pretty much wouldn't have sympathy for someone who likes to murder people...Especially if one of the people he murdered was my kid, imagine how those parents feel. I wouldn't care how much of a "good boy" he was in prison, that's a real tough thing to accomplish :roll: .. he doesn't deserve praise for it. It doesn't change the fact that he killed people.
just to clarify, I don't have sympathy for the guy in any way for having to be in prison and deal with all that, but I don't think that he should have been put to death. I think its more of a punishment for someone to have to be stuck in prison forever than to kill them.
Well guess what BRITT? it wasn't your child. How do you know he killed those people, where you there? No you weren't. My point exactly... Ain't nobody givin' him no praise because of what people claimed he did, but i am giving him praise because he changed for the better and wrote books in prison trying to keep kids out of the gangs and stuff. I wonder what this situation would have been like if it was a white person? They would've spared his life.
Brandi definately has a good point.
way to many death row inmates are people of color. i do believe racism is a huge part of it, wheather or not he killed people or not. i mean theres plenty of white racists and child molesters actually got out of prison quicker or a lessened sentance because of good behaviour. least they could do is not kill tookie.
I never said I agreed with them killing him. I just said I don't have sympathy for him having to be in prison for what he did since you said you couldn't believe nobody had sympathy for him..
Also, it should be mentioned that it's not fair to assume he didn't do it just becuase he's black. Or that since he is a POC, he must have been framed or otherwise violated.
I have no idea what actually occured but if he did kill those people, no amount of girl guide behaviour behind bars is anywhere near heroic or even redeeming.
what made me the most angry was that after his execution his lawyers, friends, supporters and those opposed to the death penalty began planning a "statesman" funeral that they compared to the massive funeral held for Rosa Parks. to compare them in any way is sickening, no matter what things williams did to reform himself in his latter years he does not deserve to be compared to such a great woman who stood for the opposite of what he did.
Albert Owens was working third shift at a convenience store. Little did he know that on this night, this would prove to be his literal graveyard shift. Tookie Williams and several of his associates entered the store. Williams shot out the security camera and demanded that Owens empty the register. Williams then forced Owens into the back where he shot him in the back. One of Williams' accomplices was sick to his stomach. Tookie Williams later joked about the gurgling, choking sounds Owens made as he drowned in his own blood. The total take from the robbery was less than $120.
A few days later, Williams robbed a motel owned by a middle aged Chinese couple. First, he executed the husband and then the wife. When the couple's daugher heard the shots she ran into the room to check on her parents, only to be shot in the face point-blank with a shotgun. Williams again garnered a paltry amount in this second robbery. His net take from both was less than $250. For $250, four lives were ripped from this earth.
It took 26 long years to bring Tookie Williams to justice. Williams was a founding member of the Crips, a street gang whose activities have claimed the lives of over 10,000 people in the Los Angeles area alone. Ten thousand people. Which one of them could have been the future finder of the cure for cancer? Which one of them would have gone on to do great things? Which one of them was a gang member who may have redeemed himself before he murdered four innocent people?
In Williams' plea for clemency he never once admitted his crimes. He never apologized to the families of those he killed. Did he change? Maybe, but does his change of heart vis a vis gangs excuse the four murders he committed? Does his change of heart bring back Albert Owens or the Yang family? Did his change of heart occur when he still had a prayer of steering young black men in LA away from gang life?
See, what you fail to realize is that if anyone were a poster boy for capital punishment, it was Tookie Williams. If anyone deserved to be strapped to a gurney and painfully prodded with a lethal needle, it was Tookie Williams. If anyone contributed to the wanton slaughter of young black males in our inner cities, it was Tookie Williams and not "the man". That Jesse Jackson would defend a man indirectly responsible for more deaths among blacks since 1976 than the Ku Klux Klan in the last 100 years shocks the hell out of me. I know, it shouldn't, but it does.
Williams deserved death. He actually deserved a far less dignified, far less humane death than what he received. He didn't give his victims the choice for clemency, and he didn't give them a painless or dignified death.
In closing, fuck Tookie Williams. May he burn in hell for all eternity, tormented forever by the screams of those he violently took from the world, perhaps dying a thousand times a day the same way he killed his victims.
I do not believe in the death penalty. I can't say exactly how I would feel if it were my child, my family, but right now I can say that I do not think that I would advocate for the death penalty then either.
I do not believe that it is ever the governments role to kill it's citizens. Ever. Yes, these people died, and that is horrible and tragic. But, killing him does not make them come back. I don't see how another death makes their deaths less tragic, or horrible. I don't understand how that is supposed to solve anything.
He did horrible things. No one is denying that. But the fact of the matter is that they have already happend. By killing someone who was currently doing things to attempt to counteract what they have done (refering specifically to starting the gang, and then working to keep youth away from gangs), how does that solve the problem as opposed to allowing them to continue working on solving the issue?
No one is saying he should go free. No one is saying that he shouldn't be punished, but I will never understand how anyone can advocate for the death of another person.
I also don't agree with the death penalty. I think murderers, rapists, etc. should be punished by living out their sentences in solitary box confinement, nutrition enough to maintain life, and temperature enough to maintain life. So that they wish they would just be killed.
There have been many injustices with the death penalty. Many people who have been murdered by the government, only to be proven innocent years later.
I think it's a shame that they killed Tookie, even if he was guilty. He shouldn't have been released, but he was performing some civil service. As for reforming criminals, I think it can be done.
I think the fact that there are unfair trials and wrongful convictions is enough to say the death penalty shouldn't exist. Even one innocent life killed due to a wrongful conviction is too many.
I don't think that killing another person is ever justifiable, I don't care how many people they murdered or whatever. Nobody deserves death. And I don't think its fair either that the government gets to pick and choose and say yeah lets kill this guy, this guy was bad enough to die. Thats just fucked up.
I am not saying Tookie Williams was innocent, but just because you are guilty I will never think its ok for you to die.
Another point to ponder is WHY HIM? California has only put to death 12 people since the death penalty was re-instated in 1978. Although we have 647 on death row, we are a relatively low-execution state.
To say Williams (or any one else) is responsible for gang violence in Los Angeles is unfair. Gang violence (just like the Watts riots in the 1960s and the LA riots in 1992) is a reflection of the way groups (in this case, poor black community in Los Angeles) are feeling because of the way they are treated and regarded in society.
The Watts riots ocurred right after "reform" in California took place to make laws racially equal. It obviously didn't work and law makers responded with programs like affirmitive action, to help certain groups get ahead.
it seems to me Williams (while an evil criminal who deserves to be punnished) was used an example because he crimes were gang related.
Another point to ponder is WHY HIM? California has only put to death 12 people since the death penalty was re-instated in 1978. Although we have 647 on death row, we are a relatively low-execution state.
To say Williams (or any one else) is responsible for gang violence in Los Angeles is unfair. Gang violence (just like the Watts riots in the 1960s and the LA riots in 1992) is a reflection of the way groups (in this case, poor black community in Los Angeles) are feeling because of the way they are treated and regarded in society.
The Watts riots ocurred right after "reform" in California took place to make laws racially equal. It obviously didn't work and law makers responded with programs like affirmitive action, to help certain groups get ahead.
it seems to me Williams (while an evil criminal who deserves to be punnished) was used an example because he crimes were gang related.
i think bcpr hit the nail on the head there. i don't doubt he did those things either, theres no excuse for his crimes, but to partially blame him for gang violence in general and to make an example out of him is not at all fair, and dare i say racist.
:x I really can't believe how some of you are about this situation. You don't even have any sympathy for the man. And how do you know if he did or didn't commit the murders. Yall just wanted him executed because you think he did it. I wouldn't apologize for something i didn't do either. You know what i bet the majority of the people who wanted him to be executed for the murders are white. It doesn't surprise me one bit that he got executed, he's a black man! Duh!!!!!! I'm not saying that this is because of racism, but it does seem to be floating around in the air somewhere don't you think?
I pretty much wouldn't have sympathy for someone who likes to murder people...Especially if one of the people he murdered was my kid, imagine how those parents feel. I wouldn't care how much of a "good boy" he was in prison, that's a real tough thing to accomplish :roll: .. he doesn't deserve praise for it. It doesn't change the fact that he killed people.
just to clarify, I don't have sympathy for the guy in any way for having to be in prison and deal with all that, but I don't think that he should have been put to death. I think its more of a punishment for someone to have to be stuck in prison forever than to kill them.
Well guess what BRITT? it wasn't your child. How do you know he killed those people, where you there? No you weren't. My point exactly... Ain't nobody givin' him no praise because of what people claimed he did, but i am giving him praise because he changed for the better and wrote books in prison trying to keep kids out of the gangs and stuff. I wonder what this situation would have been like if it was a white person? They would've spared his life.
Brandi definately has a good point.
way to many death row inmates are people of color. i do believe racism is a huge part of it, wheather or not he killed people or not. i mean theres plenty of white racists and child molesters actually got out of prison quicker or a lessened sentance because of good behaviour. least they could do is not kill tookie.
I never said I agreed with them killing him. I just said I don't have sympathy for him having to be in prison for what he did since you said you couldn't believe nobody had sympathy for him..
Also, it should be mentioned that it's not fair to assume he didn't do it just becuase he's black. Or that since he is a POC, he must have been framed or otherwise violated.
I have no idea what actually occured but if he did kill those people, no amount of girl guide behaviour behind bars is anywhere near heroic or even redeeming.
He DID do it. That's not a question AT ALL.
The trial was racist, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a murderer.
what made me the most angry was that after his execution his lawyers, friends, supporters and those opposed to the death penalty began planning a "statesman" funeral that they compared to the massive funeral held for Rosa Parks. to compare them in any way is sickening, no matter what things williams did to reform himself in his latter years he does not deserve to be compared to such a great woman who stood for the opposite of what he did.
im with bcrp.. and you know what?? fuck him.. i dont thinik he should of died at the hands of our crap ass government... but .. he was guilty....
That's pretty much where I stand too..
Albert Owens was working third shift at a convenience store. Little did he know that on this night, this would prove to be his literal graveyard shift. Tookie Williams and several of his associates entered the store. Williams shot out the security camera and demanded that Owens empty the register. Williams then forced Owens into the back where he shot him in the back. One of Williams' accomplices was sick to his stomach. Tookie Williams later joked about the gurgling, choking sounds Owens made as he drowned in his own blood. The total take from the robbery was less than $120.
A few days later, Williams robbed a motel owned by a middle aged Chinese couple. First, he executed the husband and then the wife. When the couple's daugher heard the shots she ran into the room to check on her parents, only to be shot in the face point-blank with a shotgun. Williams again garnered a paltry amount in this second robbery. His net take from both was less than $250. For $250, four lives were ripped from this earth.
It took 26 long years to bring Tookie Williams to justice. Williams was a founding member of the Crips, a street gang whose activities have claimed the lives of over 10,000 people in the Los Angeles area alone. Ten thousand people. Which one of them could have been the future finder of the cure for cancer? Which one of them would have gone on to do great things? Which one of them was a gang member who may have redeemed himself before he murdered four innocent people?
In Williams' plea for clemency he never once admitted his crimes. He never apologized to the families of those he killed. Did he change? Maybe, but does his change of heart vis a vis gangs excuse the four murders he committed? Does his change of heart bring back Albert Owens or the Yang family? Did his change of heart occur when he still had a prayer of steering young black men in LA away from gang life?
See, what you fail to realize is that if anyone were a poster boy for capital punishment, it was Tookie Williams. If anyone deserved to be strapped to a gurney and painfully prodded with a lethal needle, it was Tookie Williams. If anyone contributed to the wanton slaughter of young black males in our inner cities, it was Tookie Williams and not "the man". That Jesse Jackson would defend a man indirectly responsible for more deaths among blacks since 1976 than the Ku Klux Klan in the last 100 years shocks the hell out of me. I know, it shouldn't, but it does.
Williams deserved death. He actually deserved a far less dignified, far less humane death than what he received. He didn't give his victims the choice for clemency, and he didn't give them a painless or dignified death.
In closing, fuck Tookie Williams. May he burn in hell for all eternity, tormented forever by the screams of those he violently took from the world, perhaps dying a thousand times a day the same way he killed his victims.
I do not believe in the death penalty. I can't say exactly how I would feel if it were my child, my family, but right now I can say that I do not think that I would advocate for the death penalty then either.
I do not believe that it is ever the governments role to kill it's citizens. Ever. Yes, these people died, and that is horrible and tragic. But, killing him does not make them come back. I don't see how another death makes their deaths less tragic, or horrible. I don't understand how that is supposed to solve anything.
He did horrible things. No one is denying that. But the fact of the matter is that they have already happend. By killing someone who was currently doing things to attempt to counteract what they have done (refering specifically to starting the gang, and then working to keep youth away from gangs), how does that solve the problem as opposed to allowing them to continue working on solving the issue?
No one is saying he should go free. No one is saying that he shouldn't be punished, but I will never understand how anyone can advocate for the death of another person.
I also don't agree with the death penalty. I think murderers, rapists, etc. should be punished by living out their sentences in solitary box confinement, nutrition enough to maintain life, and temperature enough to maintain life. So that they wish they would just be killed.
There have been many injustices with the death penalty. Many people who have been murdered by the government, only to be proven innocent years later.
I think it's a shame that they killed Tookie, even if he was guilty. He shouldn't have been released, but he was performing some civil service. As for reforming criminals, I think it can be done.
I think the fact that there are unfair trials and wrongful convictions is enough to say the death penalty shouldn't exist. Even one innocent life killed due to a wrongful conviction is too many.
I don't think that killing another person is ever justifiable, I don't care how many people they murdered or whatever. Nobody deserves death. And I don't think its fair either that the government gets to pick and choose and say yeah lets kill this guy, this guy was bad enough to die. Thats just fucked up.
I am not saying Tookie Williams was innocent, but just because you are guilty I will never think its ok for you to die.
Another point to ponder is WHY HIM? California has only put to death 12 people since the death penalty was re-instated in 1978. Although we have 647 on death row, we are a relatively low-execution state.
To say Williams (or any one else) is responsible for gang violence in Los Angeles is unfair. Gang violence (just like the Watts riots in the 1960s and the LA riots in 1992) is a reflection of the way groups (in this case, poor black community in Los Angeles) are feeling because of the way they are treated and regarded in society.
The Watts riots ocurred right after "reform" in California took place to make laws racially equal. It obviously didn't work and law makers responded with programs like affirmitive action, to help certain groups get ahead.
it seems to me Williams (while an evil criminal who deserves to be punnished) was used an example because he crimes were gang related.
i think bcpr hit the nail on the head there. i don't doubt he did those things either, theres no excuse for his crimes, but to partially blame him for gang violence in general and to make an example out of him is not at all fair, and dare i say racist.
I agree bcpr
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