We need to talk.

Like I said before, it would have made this whole thing much easier if there were clearer policies on what the hell to do in this sort of situation, and it would be much better to have everyone involved in the decision making process when it comes to banning. I think that's totally fair, and honestly a lot less stressful because we can make decisions as a whole so everyone would get their say and it would really feel more like a community. It seems like it would just work a whole lot better and take a lot of the pressure off of us with the decision making thing..

I have to get off now, I hope that made sense. But I think that this Our Space forum is a really great idea Charlie.

I agree, and I also think there should be some kind of announcement when someone is banned so people know what happened, and why.

And I agree that the stickies are hard to find specifically, and too easy to scroll past as a whole. Honestly, we've got a LOT of stickies....I'm going to concentrate on this one and see if I have any suggestions as to what should be done about it, I don't want to just say a problem and offer no solution, so give me a minute and I'll really think.

Maybe a separate forum that no one but mods can post in, a GM policy forum where we put all the policy based stickies, and leave the helpful stickies in the respective forums like the one about your baby's head and all the ones about breastfeeding.

I think the ideas of pp, are fantastic, as is the adding of this space.

Just a few things I want to mention...

The first being that no matter how you involve everyone's opinions, you are still not going to have a consensus. Look at all the opinions on the boards... we are always going to have those... In a banning situation, some will want to see it happen, others will not... same goes for everyother situation.

I Admin a board, and on that board we get the opinions of our members, but it is up to the final 3 Staff members to make the final decision.

I like the idea that we all get to have an opinion, but I would retain the MODS ability to make the final call, if I were you.

Second, the idea that all the important stickies about general GM board issues, instructions, rules.... ALL IN ONE SPOT, is a good one.... And then stickies dealing with say, breastfeeding, can stay in their designated spaces. Up until yesterday I had never even heard of anon-mama!!! I had seen it numerous times, but I really had no idea that I could access it.

And last, *phew*, no matter how much the MODS discuss all the possible scenarios for what could happen on the boards, something entirely different will always come up!!!!!!!!! In our Staff Room, we have a sticky about dealing with such situations.... and it gets added to, with every new occurance. But the Staff Room Sticky is still really handy, that way if a Staff Member is dealing with a situation, and they maybe can't get ahold of anyone else... and don't know what to do!!! They have SOME guidance. I'm not sure if GM has one, but if you don't, I highly recommend it!

And that's all I got!!!

the mods have always had a forum where we talk. basically there are new posts in there everyday where we talk about what is going on with members or issues that are brought up. for the most part when someone PMs a mod about something it is reposted back there for ALL of us to see so we all know what is going on and we can all add suggestions.

we have the announcements forum for the important policies. maybe the name should be changed? i think that most people don't read the stickies before posting. i didn't! as a group the mods have been trying to suggest that the new members read them when we greet them in G&S.

i agree there should be a much better way of handling things. but i think tht britt handled it well. yes it got wayyyy out of proportion but no one knew what was going on when it happened. only getting half of a story and trying to find out what is happening when you feel like your not being listened too can be frustrating. obviously GM is a safe space for lots of people. AZ wanted to find a place to vent at the time which is okay. it is in part what we are here for. in cases like what happened here being honest with the mods or other members about what you need would have helped the situation be resolved without so much drama. we only saw the post about us not doing things in a timely manner. (yes we could have handled it without so much snarkiness) then received a PM saying she had applied for BR access 7 hrs prior and no one had approved her yet. that is frustrating for anyone who knows how tough it can be to mod. i went to a meeting and by time i got back this had all unfolded. britt was doing what she thought was right in a stressful situation. after PMs and things going nuts on the board she tried to ban her so we could find out what was going on. i agree that now it seems she was just trying to start shit. which is exactly why she was banned. not being she annoyed the mods or because we didn't like her. for someone who is making replies to her own posts and creating username after username (with her own username still being active) it does seem strange. with no explaination that seems mighty trollish. and for britt to deal with it on her own i think she handled it well. and looking at the posts AZ had made after all was said and done i don't know what to think.

thank you for all your offers to help mod. yes there are times where we need help. we have discussed possible people to help us out and we are still discussing.

If we were to rename the "announcements" forum the "policies" forum, we'd have one spot to send people when a policy is violated.

We don't allow antichoice language/racism/ableist language/etc at girlmom, please head over to the Policies forum and read up on *insert whatever*, and other policies you might not be aware of.

It seems a lot easier than having them hunt around for the right spot for a sticky. We may want to look at condensing some stickies too if it'd be possible.

Or maybe we need another forum called policies? Because we also use the announcement forum to, well, announce things like new mods or new forums, etc. Maybe we can have announcements, and have it open to the general boards and people can use it to announce whatever they feel is announceworthy, and we can get a new forum called policies which is strictly posts like, gm is pro choice, anonmama, ka/oldermama ally guidelines, ableist, etc.

As for this whole situation going on right now. I really feel like the whole situation was a misunderstanding. What we saw to be trolling, AM said was trying to get help, although I do feel like she went about it in a weird way but then again I don't know what was going on with her. For example, making a post (which i thought was spam and moved) called Si? and in it said, "anyone si? what is your favorite method?" I was thinking si as in yes in spanish, and there was really no explaination. It just seemed spammish to me, thats why i moved the si? thread and banned anonymous mama2.

I assumed that she had known about the anonmama thing because, again, it was in the announcements and I just thought she knew. I realize that was wrong to assume that and I should have told her what I meant.

I think Britt did the best she could. Pretty much all day I was the only mod online trying to deal with this and then Britt came on and I think we just didn't know what to do, and yes I admit the constant questioning of our modding was really infuriating and may have fueled our animosity a bit. What sucks is when we probably should be discussing what to do next with all the mods, most of us are at school or work all day and don't really have time to sit on the computer. I happened to not have a lot going on so I was online. But that is usually not the case. So in situations where a fast response needs to be made, there is usually not as much discussion as we probably would like just because things can fly out of proportion quickly and we need to maintain this safe space for yall.

I guess I am still unsure what to get from this whole thing. I (and this is my personal opinion of what happened) feel like we really had no idea what was going on with AM and that wasn't fair to us. I am not going to share the pms that were sent but there was nothing remotely suggesting that she needed to get into the br to post something about self injury. I just thought she was being impatient, especially in light of her other posts in Tech with all these things to expidite processes that really actually need discussion. And also the fact that she criticized us, wasn't doing well in her favor. We didn't let her into the br because of the criticizing and the impatience. For all we knew she was trying to get back there to start drama or something. Definitely if she had said that she needed to post sensitive info, that could have changed things.

I agree charlie, that we need some policy about banning serious things. However, if there is no one on and we really need to ban someone, I don't know how I feel about waiting to ban someone because we need to discuss w/ the whole group. Sometimes we can't wait for everyone's imput because it is a serious matter. I guess if it is a situation like that, we could ban the person and then start a discussion, maybe in the backroom, about why this person was banned and what is going on.

Well thats my (way more than) 2 cents for now...

is this forum/post private? i'm not sure i understand it. is it here long term?

regarding the situation with AZM, i am trying to look at it from as many perspectives as i can, and i recognize that i don't have a mod perspective, so i don't know all the details that went on behind the scenes.

from her posts, it seems like she is having a really really difficult time right now, and has been for a little while. her behavior reflects that perfectly to me. she needs serious help. i think, like someone hinted at above, that internet time and real-life time do not always match up. let's say she was in a bad way and really needed help, and was relying on GM for support, advice, venting, etc. and it took 7 hours- possibly very anxious, long hours for her- to get a response... well, now she is so full of whatever is going on in her life and HAS TO release it somehow, somewhere- so yeah, she starts letting her aggression and anger and hurt out on us- because in her mind, we have obviously let her down. And in the real world, this may not be valid because as we all know, she wasn't waiting THAT long. But i would guess time was dragging by for her and she started to feel a bit desperate.

what is the solution? i don't know there is one for this issue. it's rare something like this happens, so that tells me the system works. you cannot plan for each individual manic episode. i do think, however, it would be good to streamline the boards, condense and isolate stickies, and possibly use the announcement forum to house the policy-related ones.

If you think britt handled it well, you obviously weren't paying attention.

she compromised someones safe space not once but twice, and I do think it was her outing AM in that thread because she commented right away saying that it was a different member, and we could all guess who, I knew right away she was referring to AM, the second when she made a snarky comment about the fact that AM put a trigger on a photo post, which is btw bringing a LOCKED post into the public board which has ALWAYS been against the rules, was a total snark while doing it, and acted out of defensiveness rather then maturity.

Mods have been asked to resign for way less. You guys are in a position of power and therefore trust, and no you don't just get to be snarky and slip up with the mod hat on. If she were talking on her own, go ahead, but she was acting as a mod and that makes it unacceptable.

On the whole SI thing, I have to say something. I replied in one of the deleted threads. I didn't know who it was doing the posting until that locked thread in here. I don't check Looking Spot very often. When I read her posts, in a name I'd never seen before (and knowing about the anonymous mama thing I assumed it was someone just using that as a username) I assumed it was someone coming in here trying to encourage harmful behavior.

For all I knew, it could've been some dude whacking off to the fantasy of girls hurting themselves, and wanting us to tell him stories.

There was no explanation as to why she wanted to know who did it, or why she wanted to know what methods used. And the "fun huh?" and the rest of that post? Well not knowing who that was from, I took it as face value, not sarcasm. The post wasn't set up as someone looking for help and wanting to know they weren't alone, it read to me as an upbeat poll for something extremely harmful and unhealthy, something a lot of us struggle with.

could you put large bullet points things on the banner. put up like an add for the stickeys.

need help? don't wanna give your name? use anon. ask us how!

something like that that people would see.

i'll shut up about this after this post unless someone has a question but there are some real problems that really do cause people pain and confusion and for which thy need help and support that also make them kinda hard to deal with at times.

when i was pregnant with my son i posted here all the time. was addicted to the place and NEEDED help right away for a lot of things. i was single going through some shit and very poor and had few other supports in my life. this place helped keep me from killing myself- literally.

when people seem to be doing something out of charichter or become unreasonable all of a sudden perhaps it's best to wait and see if it's cause of some real problem for which they are asking our support.

the impatience, the idea of SI as a good thing, those all seem to me signs of a person in need of help who feels cornered by the people she needed support from. i could be wrong, very wrong.

the thing is, a safe space is only safe if people also feel able to screw p every now and then. making a habit of it is bad but the ability to know that you will be helped and forgiven for making a mistake is necessary in a place where people are meant to talk about things in their past like rape, or sexual harassment at the welfare office, or boyfriends who hit them while pregnant (all things this site helped me live through)

I've been wondering what the hell you were talking about with the trigger on a photo post thing and bringing a locked thread into the public eye...When did I ever say anything about that?? Because I only found out about that yesterday when the thread was moved back to our forum at the request of AM and I don't believe I ever said anything about that at all. Actually, looking at that thread, you're the only one who brought it up.

Yeah, that's why the first thread was moved. I thought it was her trying to cause more problems because it didn't seem like she was seeking help or support. It seemed like she was offering encouragement.

As for the original topic, I think the policies forum is a good idea too. Like someone said, it would be easier on new members if we sent them to one place and not searching around for random stickies.

and I think this forum should be permanent too.

I brought the private post from LS into tech. I made a snarky remark about it. Not britt. If anyone should step down for that then it should be me.

the goal of nurturing a community and the goal of having a safe space are not separate from one another.

it doesn't make sense to me that when shit goes down, the response is to make verbal attacks on each other. i know i've had my fair share of shit storm contributions on girlmom over the years, but the ones that were always the worst were the attacks on the mods. to me, there is nothing that will deteriorate any community faster than low, dirty shots at the ones who are putting in their hours of thankless, hard work. that includes members, but particularly mods because they are in the spotlight.

sometimes when there is drama people go "remember how it used to be? it was so great back then!" like on girlmom we'd talk about when the boards were black and green. that mythical girlmom.com where we all had our safe space protected and the trolls left on their own and everyone got all empowered and shit. it never happened!

the mods who created this site and the policies that help it run fucked up on occasion, made totally nasty comments to members, acted impulsively to try to calm the drama and then were called out for it after the fact, and so on. but the crazy part was that it WORKED. because we all really, really loved the community here, even when members pissed us right the fuck off.

i think it is too bad that the words "safe space" have come to mean that bitterness and snarkiness towards each other are tolerated. there is more fighting over what a safe space is, how the mods are protecting it/not protecting it, who can say what about what, than anything else on this site.

the energy to empower yourself and one another, the raw passion for change, the urge to fucking fight back against that which oppresses us... where did that go? it got lost somewhere between being the "calling out" police, hating the mods because they suck, and building resentments between one another. standing on a soapbox to shout at one another is, to be honest, fucking stupid. its easy and tempting and omg so fun sometimes, but its a waste of your time and your amazingly intelligent, brilliant, passionate minds.

safe space is vital on a website like this, but so is community. i don't think you can have one without the other. maybe fixing the safe space violations doesn't mean that people are punished (banned, forced to step down). maybe it doesn't mean that really mean comments against one another are tolerated because its supposedly an act of support. maybe people should stop taking sides and shouting at each other and figure out how they are going to be able to work together. because it doesn't matter how righteously supported any "safe space" is, there will be NOTHING unless you are there for each other.

and that is just the plain old cheesy truth.

word kaya. i think when i realized that even the older mods from when i first came here where human too is when i realized we all make mistakes and deserve to be forgiven for them and move the hell on. its what we do.

If Britt compromised a safe place for someone who was acting like a troll then imagine if she gave her backroom access? I mean honestly I myself have posted stuff back there that i DO NOT want made public knowledge and if she had a question on how to handle the anon mom thing then why the hell didnt she ask it when she asked so many times to get access.

Britt was keeping this place safe and I believe you gave her just as much snarky attitude.

And believe it or not, people can be just as fake about being a teen mom as they do about SI.

Britt apolagized. I think you owe her a large one too.

I think you owe me one too.
I am not a mother now?? or an si er???

okay then..
yah..

No, I don't think she was saying that you are not a mom. I took it to mean that people can be fake about anything, not just being a mom.

im not a mod and i dont care if im being snarky to you. idk who you are and you give me bad vibes when you pm me repeatedly when i told you if you had a problem with what I said to pm the mods. i see that instead youd rather be immature in public. I dont think you get the concept of girlmom, and I DONT trust you. That doesnt mean that your a mom or a you SI. you might be one of those you might be both. or neither. your posts seemed very ugh idk, suspiscious? or trolly? and i dont get your explanations. and while everyone else here seems to be moving on and making it so that you have a place to call or get support immediately if you need it, you are still stuck on the drama of you being blocked. I was sticking up for Britt who did what a mod was supposed to do and blocked you for being suspicious. you say you needed backroom access badly but everyone needed to wait. you made several screen names and you responded to your own post under a different screen name.

I made more then one screen name because i thought that is what mod quad said to do . I replied to my post because that is how everyone else does it . u post the info . then reply to it later when u have some responses back from it. u try not to back it bias.
and as for u saying to contact the mods i cant . i have been told not to pm them about anything unless it is a question about something THEY said . plus i did try to pm mod squad and it says i am banned from pming her .I brought it out here cuz i know the mods are looking at this...
and also for """repetitively"" pm ing u . first of it was 2 times, 1 to ask u about it , and the other saying u never answered my question. and that is perfectly reasonable cuz i was trying to understand what u were trying to say . like u just said some people dont get other peoples explanations.

I might over step my boundries here but in all fairness this needs to STOP now. this ongoing debate about sn's and this stuff is getting a bit to the extreme. please if you need support that is great we are here to help u and to lend an ear but all of this ongoing drama is getting a bit ridiculous now imo.

No. There is no way you could be banned from pm'ing the mod_squad unless there is something I don't know about. I also would like to know where someone said that you could not pm the mod_squad or a moderator.

must of been an error o something but it wouldnt go.....

no one ever said you couldn't PM a mod. and really we have all been on pretty much all day trying to deal with this.

if i can find out how to unban your original username i will. the mods are here to help you as is the rest of the site.

What the hell? Who ever told you that? This is getting ridiculous..

thanks ...

That explanation makes no sense. You haven't even addressed the fact that you responded to your own post saying that what you said is (insert offensive term). That would be like me posting "Hey, this is how things work in my town" and then next thing coming back and saying to myself "That's ridiculous, why would they make you do that?"...it doesn't make sense and doesn't fit with the explanation you are giving.

Obviously people aren't happy with what we did. We are all sorry AZ and more then anything we hope you are okay. But this isn't about who was right and wrong anymore. If you need help we are here but we aren't going to keep arguing about this because we are getting no where.

You can PM any of the mods or mod_squad at any point if you want to talk about this through PMs but I dont think anything that needs to be discussed about who was right or wrong on the board anymore. I will even give you my phone number and we can talk about it (not right now though since it is midnight here and I am exhausted).

So back to the original topic. What would you like to see changed that we can start to impliment so this doesn't happen anymore? I think the phone numbers is a great idea. Thanks momtobe19 for starting that already. I hope that from here on out we can keep moving foward and have this be something where only good things came out of.

that was chicamocha btw sorry!