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StarlightBlaze
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Ohhh. Well I didn't mean it to be negative, but I guess I should've focused more on finding ways to say more positive things. Sorry again!

I guess it should be about finding positive, alternate words, like "outrageous" instead of "crazy".

I have a bit of a triggering question: is "dumb" on the abelist word list? :oops:

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StarlightBlaze wrote:
Ohhh. Well I didn't mean it to be negative, but I guess I should've focused more on finding ways to say more positive things. Sorry again!

I guess it should be about finding positive, alternate words, like "outrageous" instead of "crazy".

I have a bit of a triggering question: is "dumb" on the abelist word list? :oops:

yes it is. here's the link. it is very useful:

http://www.girl-mom.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7915

StarlightBlaze
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Kay thank you! I just wasn't sure...I have a hard time looking for threads because there's so much, so again, thanks!

naivete
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I've found ableist words the easiest to replace, cause usually when I used to use them I wasn't really mad, so it's easier not to slip up. Like instead of "crazy", I say "Trey, you so silllllllay", when something's messed up I just say it's messed up (I don't usually use the F word). My main problem is the B word, because usually when I use it it's when I'm aggravated or annoyed and it slips. I don't use it in joking terms, or in reclaimation, it's just when I'm getting really on edge. I could replace it with asshat, cause that's one of my favorite insults. I don't think it's bad to recognize where we mess up, or to recognize that we work harder on here then we might in real life, but I agree it's important to in the same breath, recognize why we should strive to change that.

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adcaela wrote:
But I can assure you the words you are struggling with are not the words that are hurting you, they're hurting other people.

You know, this might sound really hypocritical, but the one word that I'm struggling with the most is the one that seriously hurts me, and one that I call out on the board a lot. I honestly don't know how to explain it, but I think it probably happens a lot, maybe not with other GMs because we are so conscious about what we say here, and that often transfers into life. But it makes sense to me that if you are labelled something your entire life, you would start using that label on those around you to...I don't know, maybe deflect from yourself?

adcaela
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good point. Sorry. That was supposed to be an it's easy to slip up when the word isn't torturing you. But I guess the words that are torturing us are the hardest to escape.

bluemystique82
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I think everyone slips up and uses words like that sometimes. But it's nice that the girls here have enough respect and decency to censor their language on this site. :)

StarlightBlaze
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Hilary wrote:
...... I think it's a little bit analagous to saying "I act pro-choice on girlmom, but in real life I'm against abortion," and we all know how much someone would get called out over that. Since that's inappropriate for girlmom, couldn't this be too?

I just re-read this, and I have a question: Is it bad to say that you support everyone else's decision on whatever choice they choose for their pregnancy, no matter whether they choose to continue their pregnancy, terminate it, or give up their baby for adoption, but you are against abortion on your own pregnancies? Would that still mean I'm anti-choice, or would it be considered pro-choice? I'm not thinking straight right now, but basically, what I'm trying to say is that what I just applies to me...I don't know if that would get me called out, and if it does, would I have to leave the site? :( :?

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I say "bonkers" or "Silly Billy", "The kitten is going bonkers", I don't know if that's an ok word to use, but i HATE the word "cra*y".

And as for swearing, i say fuck all the time, and some times crap. but not really any other swears, i did b4 gm, being totally ignorant to the fact they are VERY hurtful, and TOTALLY unnessary.(There are always other words that can be used to express yourself.) I'm sure I say things that could be hurtful without even knowing I'm being hurtful, but if I learn that somthing is offencive, I really try to replace it with another word.

StarlightBlaze
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I don't think "crap" is a bad word to use. It sounds a whole lot more "friendly" than saying "shit". As for "fuck", I'll say it when I am posting about someone in my family who angers me a whole lot...I don't think it's a bad word to use either...I'm not sure if it's ableist or not...I didn't really notice it in any of the stickies...

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StarlightBlaze wrote:
Hilary wrote:
...... I think it's a little bit analagous to saying "I act pro-choice on girlmom, but in real life I'm against abortion," and we all know how much someone would get called out over that. Since that's inappropriate for girlmom, couldn't this be too?

I just re-read this, and I have a question: Is it bad to say that you support everyone else's decision on whatever choice they choose for their pregnancy, no matter whether they choose to continue their pregnancy, terminate it, or give up their baby for adoption, but you are against abortion on your own pregnancies? Would that still mean I'm anti-choice, or would it be considered pro-choice? I'm not thinking straight right now, but basically, what I'm trying to say is that what I just applies to me...I don't know if that would get me called out, and if it does, would I have to leave the site? :( :?

This is not considered a fully pro-choice stance. The best way I can describe it, is that it's like you are sitting on the fence and looking down on the women who have had or will have abortions, and placing a judgment for your perceived higher morality. While you may prefer things IRL, say for example, a red car over a white one, it's like you are saying "hey- it's cool if you want to drive a white car. I would never drive a white car but sure I'll support you if you want to drive one yourself. BUT i would NEVER consider driving a white car. but don't worry, there's nothing worng with white cars." Stupid analogy, but the subtext is what is important- there is an underlying implication that one is better than the other, more desirable, because you value it over the other choice. the attitude is somewhat condescending, too. plus, it's ruling out an option based on a hypothetical situation, which is slightly irrational IMO.

As for people here on GM who take this stance- trust me when i say there are definitely women here who feel this way, but like this thread- they abide by the rules for the sake of the site, for the sake of women here who need a safe supportive place- and in real life, they have their beliefs and there's a different set of "rules." i'd like to think that over time, maybe through osmosis, this stance can be shaped into an understanding of what 100% pro-choiceness is about by being surrounded by women who unabashedly support all choices for all women. we'll never really know for sure, because that's just the way the internet game goes. overall, i think it's useful to have women across the spectrum because it encourages debate, reaffirms beliefs, helps those who are questioning their stance firm up their beliefs, and leads to learning/unlearning.

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Amy Rox wrote:

This is not considered a fully pro-choice stance. The best way I can describe it, is that it's like you are sitting on the fence and looking down on the women who have had or will have abortions, and placing a judgment for your perceived higher morality. While you may prefer things IRL, say for example, a red car over a white one, it's like you are saying "hey- it's cool if you want to drive a white car. I would never drive a white car but sure I'll support you if you want to drive one yourself. BUT i would NEVER consider driving a white car. but don't worry, there's nothing worng with white cars." Stupid analogy, but the subtext is what is important- there is an underlying implication that one is better than the other, more desirable, because you value it over the other choice. the attitude is somewhat condescending, too. plus, it's ruling out an option based on a hypothetical situation, which is slightly irrational IMO.

As for people here on GM who take this stance- trust me when i say there are definitely women here who feel this way, but like this thread- they abide by the rules for the sake of the site, for the sake of women here who need a safe supportive place- and in real life, they have their beliefs and there's a different set of "rules." i'd like to think that over time, maybe through osmosis, this stance can be shaped into an understanding of what 100% pro-choiceness is about by being surrounded by women who unabashedly support all choices for all women. we'll never really know for sure, because that's just the way the internet game goes. overall, i think it's useful to have women across the spectrum because it encourages debate, reaffirms beliefs, helps those who are questioning their stance firm up their beliefs, and leads to learning/unlearning.

I don't want to sound like I'm prying you, but could you explain this to me in a way that's easier to understand?

I understand the part where you said it wasn't a full pro-choice stance, I totally get that, but like...the rest of it, I have to re-read it over and I still don't get what you're really saying. I'm very sorry if I made you feel like you wasted your breath!!! :oops: :oops: :(

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Well part of it is because it's ignorant to say you'll never consider it or that it'll never be the right choice for you, there are so many women out there who say that and then find themselves in the position where they need one. Pro choice is about recognizing it as a legitimate decision for ANY pregnancy, any woman. To say that it's something you could never do might not seem that way to you, but it still passes judgement on the women who HAVE done it or will do it. Like, stupid analogy time again, but picture you just bought a great dress and you love it right? Now picture one of your friends crinkling up her nose and saying ".. well it's definitely not something I'D EVER wear, but for you, I guess it's okay".

Even if it's said nicely, there's still creating tension between you and the women who have done it, you know?

And like I said, you can't say right now that you'll never have one, because you just haven't been in the position where you've needed one yet. To fully recognize abortion as a legit decision you must recognize why it needs to be available, and to know that just because it's not right for one pregnancy doesn't mean it's not something that you'll never need. It needs to be legitimate not only for the women who choose it but for the women who haven't yet who recognize the importance of it being available.

I for one haven't chosen it yet, but some day will I? Maybe. Not sure if I want more then 2 kids, so after this pregnancy I'm doubling up on birth control and if I get pregnant again, I'm definitely not putting off post secondary again, I may not want 3 children or 3 children may not work for my situation, so even though I didn't choose abortion with Trey or with this pregnancy, I fully recognize that it's ignorant to say that it's something I'll never choose, I'm glad the option is there for me for whenever I might need it, and for those women who do currently, it's an option that needs to stay open and supported and with less stigma and more availability.

It's not anti choice to have not had an abortion, or to think that abortion wasn't the right choice for you at a certain period of time, obviously there are mamas on here who have continued pregnancies, pro choice is recognizing that just because you haven't needed it yet, that you might some day, and not to create layers of judgement between you and women who have needed it, just because you haven't yet.

StarlightBlaze
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naivete wrote:
Well part of it is because it's ignorant to say you'll never consider it or that it'll never be the right choice for you, there are so many women out there who say that and then find themselves in the position where they need one. Pro choice is about recognizing it as a legitimate decision for ANY pregnancy, any woman. To say that it's something you could never do might not seem that way to you, but it still passes judgement on the women who HAVE done it or will do it. Like, stupid analogy time again, but picture you just bought a great dress and you love it right? Now picture one of your friends crinkling up her nose and saying ".. well it's definitely not something I'D EVER wear, but for you, I guess it's okay".

Even if it's said nicely, there's still creating tension between you and the women who have done it, you know?

And like I said, you can't say right now that you'll never have one, because you just haven't been in the position where you've needed one yet. To fully recognize abortion as a legit decision you must recognize why it needs to be available, and to know that just because it's not right for one pregnancy doesn't mean it's not something that you'll never need. It needs to be legitimate not only for the women who choose it but for the women who haven't yet who recognize the importance of it being available.

I for one haven't chosen it yet, but some day will I? Maybe. Not sure if I want more then 2 kids, so after this pregnancy I'm doubling up on birth control and if I get pregnant again, I'm definitely not putting off post secondary again, I may not want 3 children or 3 children may not work for my situation, so even though I didn't choose abortion with Trey or with this pregnancy, I fully recognize that it's ignorant to say that it's something I'll never choose, I'm glad the option is there for me for whenever I might need it, and for those women who do currently, it's an option that needs to stay open and supported and with less stigma and more availability.

It's not anti choice to have not had an abortion, or to think that abortion wasn't the right choice for you at a certain period of time, obviously there are mamas on here who have continued pregnancies, pro choice is recognizing that just because you haven't needed it yet, that you might some day, and not to create layers of judgement between you and women who have needed it, just because you haven't yet.

Ahhh, okay thank you sooo much! That was a lot easier to understand lol. Yeah...I know you are 100% right. Maybe I didn't choose abortion for these 2 pregnancies, but who knows what the future brings, eh? For now, I guess all I have to say is, "I didn't choose abortion for my 2 pregnancies", no other words behind my reason. Ahh..I gets it nows. :D :oops:

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You can be pro-choice and have kids.. Hence all of us here. I have one dd already, and me and jeremy have already talked and decided that if i get pregnant ( hopefully my IUD won't fail me! ) in the next 4 years, i will have an abortion. And that might change, but for right now, that's the plan. Being pro-choice doesn't mean you abort all pregnancies that you might have, it means that you are, well Pro-choice. You have the option to have an abortion if YOU so choose. Did that make sense??

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MommyKatlin wrote:
You can be pro-choice and have kids.. Hence all of us here. I have one dd already, and me and jeremy have already talked and decided that if i get pregnant ( hopefully my IUD won't fail me! ) in the next 4 years, i will have an abortion. And that might change, but for right now, that's the plan. Being pro-choice doesn't mean you abort all pregnancies that you might have, it means that you are, well Pro-choice. You have the option to have an abortion if YOU so choose. Did that make sense??

Even better! Thanks. :oops: :)

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sorry for the confusion/lack of clarity. i have a way of doing that :wink:

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Here is an essay that I think does a good job explaining what AmyRox was saying:
http://www.girl-mom.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12569

and I'm quoting this from http://www.girl-mom.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7359&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 thread I think this post also does a good job answering your question.

Jen wrote:
We don't feel that it is necessary to say that "I'm prochoice but would not have an abortion," because that draws lines unnecessarily between women. Saying "I'm prochoice" is enough.

Also, fyi to all, this is a prochoice board. Meaning, if you are "against abortion personally," this isn't the place to talk about it, and if you can't respect the fact that avoiding that kind of language is a rule at our boards, these may not be the best boards for you. Not to sound harsh, but it seems that a reminder would be good.

To quote Julie's response in another thread about the "against abortion personally" thing:

"The thing with saying "abortion is not for me, i wouldn't do it" is that it immediately begs the question of if there is something wrong with ME that i HAVE done it. it makes some of us run through our situations and wonder if our choice to abort was really valid, if other people can say point blank they'd never do it. does that make sense?
i understand you don't mean it as a judgment, but women who have abortions get SO much judgment everywhere else, we try to keep girlmom as safe as possible. That doesn't mean you have to lie and say you would consider an abortion, but just saying, "I've decided not to have an abortion" or "I'm choosing to continue this pregnancy" is a great way to express your individual choice, along with respecting the women here who have chosen abortion. Most of us here have chosen not to have an abortion at one time or another, so we can understand the feeling of not wanting one this time around."

It's not really up for debate.

Hope that helps!

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Thanks girls! Oh, and AmyRox, no worries...I think that fault was on my end...I'm a little...umm..."not knowing". :lol:

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I came onto GM saying that I would support mamas who had abortions but I personally could never have one. Not only was I being ignorant... I was also so very wrong. I really counted the chick before it DIDN'T hatch. I was told that I wasn't being pro-choice and I never understood. But now I do. Me, the girl who said NEVER, should've never said never. After two kids, I did have an abortion. No, it wasn't in my plans. No it wasn't something I anticipated doing. But I did and it was the BEST decision I've ever made. You just don't know what life's going to throw your way and you have to be prepared to take care of you. No matter what.

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bluemystique82 wrote:
I came onto GM saying that I would support mamas who had abortions but I personally could never have one. Not only was I being ignorant... I was also so very wrong. I really counted the chick before it DIDN'T hatch. I was told that I wasn't being pro-choice and I never understood. But now I do. Me, the girl who said NEVER, should've never said never. After two kids, I did have an abortion. No, it wasn't in my plans. No it wasn't something I anticipated doing. But I did and it was the BEST decision I've ever made. You just don't know what life's going to throw your way and you have to be prepared to take care of you. No matter what.

That was me. I was raised in an anti-choice house. VERY anti-choice. So i thought it was wrong, "sinful" whatever. I don't know that i ever said out-loud that " i wouldn't ever do that" but i sure did think it. I am so thankful for this site, or i would probably still think like that. Me and my mom have talked about me being pro-choice. she has said somethings to me and i have debated them and she is starting to see my side of things... maybe!! :roll:

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When I first came to GM, I was anti-choice, or at least unsure... now I can't believe I ever was.

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adcaela wrote:
When I first came to GM, I was anti-choice, or at least unsure... now I can't believe I ever was.

Me too. When I first started lurking, I would read a lot of threads and be like what? Not just the pro-choice stuff, but a lot of the other stuff too. But I kept reading and eventually, the things I read started making a lot more sense than the things I used to believe.

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I was pro-choice when I came to girl-mom but I learned a LOT about that particular subject, more than I actually already knew. I also learned a ton more about feminism and racism, it is amazing.

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CanadianMamma wrote:
adcaela wrote:
When I first came to GM, I was anti-choice, or at least unsure... now I can't believe I ever was.

Me too. When I first started lurking, I would read a lot of threads and be like what? Not just the pro-choice stuff, but a lot of the other stuff too. But I kept reading and eventually, the things I read started making a lot more sense than the things I used to believe.

I grew up in an all white, rich, small town where almost every family went to church. I remember being on a swim team with a girl who was from a city and looking at her yearbook going" wow there are a lot of black people at your school". She just stared at me and gave me a huge lecture of how I was so sheltered. Hell until I came to girlmom I couldnt believe there were girls that did have abortions. I had never met one, never even heard of anyone getting one. I felt like I was trash because that is all I've ever heard. That girls who got pregnant in high school were trash. I had never heard of a teenage mom who got pregnant and finished high school. I remember talking to alli, rosie, and julie and being completely blown away because they were everything I was told I could never be. I never thought I would go to college, I was in an abusive relationship and thought it was okay that he beat me, and thought abortions were so wrong. I didn't think I would fit in here at first but stayed because of all the strength that you girls have. I couldn't believe everything I learned and unlearned here. I haven't been put in the postion yet but I would have an abortion now if I wanted one, I am a feminist, came out as bisexual on this site, left BD, and actually breastfed my child when I was looked down on by everyone I knew. In the three years since I had emily I have grown so much from this site.

Naviete, you put it perfectly too.

Quote:
Well part of it is because it's ignorant to say you'll never consider it or that it'll never be the right choice for you, there are so many women out there who say that and then find themselves in the position where they need one. Pro choice is about recognizing it as a legitimate decision for ANY pregnancy, any woman. To say that it's something you could never do might not seem that way to you, but it still passes judgement on the women who HAVE done it or will do it. Like, stupid analogy time again, but picture you just bought a great dress and you love it right? Now picture one of your friends crinkling up her nose and saying ".. well it's definitely not something I'D EVER wear, but for you, I guess it's okay".
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adcaela wrote:
Also Hylian, saying someone is nuts is still ableist. It has the same historical meaning.

ack!! I'm trying here....*headdesk*

what does everyone else say instead? :shock:

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I used to say bonkers but you look it up and it's also 'informal slang for mentally irregular'. Oops.

Now I say messed up if it's a bad thing, or silly if it's a fun thing. When T is being all over the place, I say Trey you so silllly.

or if it's an insult, it's things like absurd.

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I've been working on using silly...... I slipped up yesterday... or maybe the day before, but I corrected it, and mentally said to myself.. silly, silly, silly, silly, silly....

And I have used it successfully since!

Good One Naivete!

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I come from a very anti-choice upbringing. And I was so stubborn when I first joined GM. I thought that GMers were evil man-hating people who would stop at nothing to push their views onto others. But once I became more openminded and actually LISTENED, instead of ASSUMED, I realized that GMs are just humble girls/women who share one love: womanhood, mothering, and everything in between. Being feminist is the opposite of what I was told growing up. And their views don't need to be pushed... it just takes an open mind to understand and embrace them.

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oh..and I, too was *seriously* anti-choice.....I'm so glad I unlearned that.

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