Hey Pam, you're partnered. You aren't offended by those things because you can identify with it. The focus of this site isn't on the partners of teen moms, the focus of the site is the teen moms themselves.
When I see "fiancee/husband/etc. to blah blah blah my honey bunch that I just looooove soooo much and have been together with for 23947239478 years" I want to barf. If it isn't such a big deal, can't you leave it out? I'm a single mom who would rather not be reminded that everyone else has a wonderful/awesome/devoted husband at home. ESPECIALLY the kidless allies. Fuck! I don't want to see "I will graduate in 2005 with a master's/md/phd degree in blah blah with my NEW fiancee and we're getting married on VALENTINE'S DAY and we don't have kids yet because we're smart enough to wait 'til marriage, go us, we're SO much better than you!" Of course it doesn't really say that, but that's how I feel when I read it and then I do this----> :roll:
This site is for teen moms. If it's upsetting to someone who doesn't have children to see us talking about our kids on this site or having our kids' names and birthdates in our signature lines, too bad. Seriously. Look at the name of this site! GirlMOM.
Okay... I don't approve of "oh my hubby is so lovey-dovey and I can't live without him..." But what about "Mama to Joe and Cassie, wife to Jared". Is that acceptable? Or for kidless allies "Student at Harvard, engaged to George". Something short and sweet? Is that offensive?
This is really aggravating me. Have you noticed it's the mainly partnered women saying that non partnered women shouldn't be offended, and defending it?
Anyways, the first page alone there were 4 single women who stated outright that it made them uncomfortable or depressed. We've had TWO mods already reiterate the same:
tricia wrote:
it is about respect, if it bothers people why do you care if you don't have wife to so and so in your sig line??? really what is the big deal about omiting it?
rosie wrote:
Of course I'm not saying I envy those in shitty relationships, who would? I was just saying, "Hey it bugs when those who arent single seem to flaunt there married status, cause yea, sometimes I am jealous and I wish I had help." I didnt say every marriage/relationship is perfect, or that in ALL situations partnered moms had it easy. If you read that, um, maybe re read what was said.
Why the hell should there be a poll? So if x% of people are offended then you guys will take it down? Why should there be a limit of people who are offended before you'll start to acknowledge the fact that you're offending or stop offending? You think people are going to outright say now, "Hey I'm offended" when so many of you have already crammed the fact that 'they shouldn't be offended' down their throats? "Hey, it's stupid of you guys to be offended, but if you're offended, speak up!" They already did, and more might have if this thread didn't take this turn. Defending those that are doing the offending and silencing the ones who are offended and hurt by it? Come on.
The point is simple, there's already people who spoke up and said outright that it hurts them. Isn't that enough? Isn't it enough that 10+ people have already said? There shouldn't be an x amount of people that someone hurts, before they're asked to stop hurting them.
I just don't see why it's necessary to include a partner/husband/whatever in your signature line. My bank account is an important part of my life but I'm not going to put the balance of it in my signature line. My parents and grandparents and best friends are an important part of my life but I'm not going to put my entire family tree on there either.
Naivete-You make a good point. Why are people saying (in not so many words) "you shouldn't be offended, you're stupid if you're offended by something that LITTLE and MEANINGLESS"? It's obviously not little and meaningless to those of us who lose a little bit of ourselves when we have to see it. And you're right, it's mostly the partnered mamas/allies telling us how dumb we are that a "little" thing like reminders of societal pressure on us to be married and have a nuclear family with our babydaddies bugs the fuck out of us.
I would like to consider this discussion with the mods when they get back. until then, the things that are important to me will remain in my signature line. I don't have them there because I think I am better than anyone here. I have them there because they are important to me, just like those of you who have you child's info.
Just an FYI....This is called girlMOM, THAT is why most people have a childs info in their signature...Because as far as status goes...there ARE status' here....girlmoms and kidless Allies, and while the allies are VERY appreciated, they are not the focus. Please try to remember that.
Just an FYI....This is called girlMOM, THAT is why most people have a childs info in their signature...Because as far as status goes...there ARE status' here....girlmoms and kidless Allies, and while the allies are VERY appreciated, they are not the focus. Please try to remember that.
ok, so I am just now reading this thread and I honestly dont see why people are so adamant about keeping their husbands in their signatures.
My signature has only my name, age, and my daughters name and birthday.
Those things simply identify me and show that I am in fact a girlmom.
For the record, I am married and I realize that is a priviledge.....I spent most of my daughters life as a single parent though and I realize the upset and feeling of inferiority (sp?) being a single mom can cause. At times I felt like a strong lioness who could take on the world. And at other times I felt like a tiny speck incapable of anything productive....Those low times are when I would need support from a place like GirlMom, and at those low times seeing someones signature about their happy, perfect family would have upset me.
I dont think sometimes and I say "my husband" when Im discussing something involving him but I am trying to remember and use only his name or refer to him as my partner....
Anyways...thats just my two cents on that...
As far as education goes...I would LOOOOOOOVE to go to college but its just not a possibility for me right now and probably not any time soon. But I dont see a problem with mamas posting about their school...They've worked hard and overcome a lot to get to where they are and I am proud of them and happy for them...
I think talking about college and husbands are two completely different things. I can be happy for and proud of a mama doing what she wants with her education and putting that in her signature line. In the real world I get a lot of shit for going to college instead of "getting a real job" so I can "support my kid" instead of "mooching off the system" like someone so wonderfully put in another thread. Give me a fucking break.
Why the hell should there be a poll? So if x% of people are offended then you guys will take it down? Why should there be a limit of people who are offended before you'll start to acknowledge the fact that you're offending or stop offending?
I suggested a poll because I am personally interested in seeing how many people disapprove of such siggies. I didn't want it to be a contest. I didn't intend for it to say "hey... well, these people say it's okay, so therefore we should have a right to post whatever the hell we want in our siggies". I was just curious. I didn't realize that so many individuals would be offended or disgusted by people proclaiming their love and devotion for their partner. Like I said, maybe I'm ignorant because I am in a relationship. I don't know how it feels like to be in the shoes of single mothers. I am trying to understand. I'm not here to argue. I want to LEARN.
I just don't see why it's necessary to include a partner/husband/whatever in your signature line. My bank account is an important part of my life but I'm not going to put the balance of it in my signature line. My parents and grandparents and best friends are an important part of my life but I'm not going to put my entire family tree on there either.
Naivete-You make a good point. Why are people saying (in not so many words) "you shouldn't be offended, you're stupid if you're offended by something that LITTLE and MEANINGLESS"? It's obviously not little and meaningless to those of us who lose a little bit of ourselves when we have to see it. And you're right, it's mostly the partnered mamas/allies telling us how dumb we are that a "little" thing like reminders of societal pressure on us to be married and have a nuclear family with our babydaddies bugs the fuck out of us.
I am not calling anyone dumb. If anything I'm the person who is being stupid. I'm just confused and it kinda offends me that people think married/partnered mamas should not be able to say "hey, I'm in love and I'm happy". You gotta look at it both ways. You girls are single and it makes you mad to see wedding dates and such in siggies. Well, how do you think the partnered mamas feel? It makes us feel shitty knowing that no one cares to hear about our relationships. It's not like we're sporting big huge banners. I understand that this is a sensitive issue for some. That's why I don't have anything of the sort in my signature. I don't want to anger or hurt the other mamas here, cause I love and respect y'all no matter what I say. It just kinda hurts me... I feel like a reject... or an outcast because of my relationship status. :cry:
Look, I'm not defending the relationship siggie holders here. I could care less about putting my bf's name in my signature. I never have so that's not the issue. This thread just kind of gives me the feeling that we don't belong here, KWIM? I know that married mamas are privileged. I know that. And I acknowledge how that can piss single mothers off. I just feel so unwelcome now. I mean, I love GirlMom. I love you mamas. No one in particular has made me sad. I guess it's just the tone of this thread. I don't really feel equal anymore. I respect everyone's opinion and since the majority say "no lovey-dovey siggies" then that's the way it SHOULD be. No one should cross the line if it means hurting others. It's not a BIG DEAL to erase your siggie. It really isn't. I just feel.... weird. I don't know. I'm rambling. Maybe I should stay out of threads like this. :?
Blue hon I don't want you to feel like you don't belong here at all. Everyone's said they do care about the women and they feel super happy for them that they've found someone, but they can't help feeling depressed having it always in their face, attached to every post, kwim? It's a constant reminder of what they don't have. Don't feel out of it, I'm partnered myself.
There was a time a few years ago when I was pregnant and alone, and quite honestly, the prospect of facing it ALONE scared me even more then the prospect of having the baby. I miscarried, but I'll always remember how I felt even fearing the idea of doing it alone. There's a lot of women here, who do it alone every single day. They fight against social stigmas, and do it all without emotional or financial support, they have to constantly fight against criticism from society as well as their own sadness and fears. I have a husband, and I don't have to face any of that. Why should I expect these girls who face so much, to conform their feelings just so I can have freedom of speech? I'm incredibly privileged, why keep announcing it and announcing it and just remind these girls over and over of what they don't have, even though it's unintentional, obviously that's what it does. On top of everything they have to go through.. why add to that? Why not just take it out, as it doesn't do anything to affect me to leave it out, but leaving it in would continue to hurt so many. On top of everything we have in our privilege, why fight against those who don't. If it hurts, it hurts, I just really don't see the point of arguing and telling people why they shouldn't be hurt.
Pam, I think you've been a really good listener since you have returned to GM, so please don't get defensive or say you feel out of place here because of this thread. Just listen to what we're saying.
This isn't ABOUT the married/partnered moms. This is about the single moms who are offended that our concerns are being brushed off as not important. No one is saying we don't want to hear about your relationships, but hey, lay off on the "it makes me feel bad because no one wants to hear about how much my bf/husband loves me" stuff, ya know? It's not a big deal for you, right?
These threads ALWAYS turn into "but us married/partnered moms feel soooo bad". And it isn't supposed to make you feel bad but to recognize that we are in different positions and are looked on differently by other people. No one asks you where your bd/bf/husband is and then replies with pity when you say you don't have one.
Just realize we are not coming from the same place on this issue and it's the single moms that should be listened to about it and the signature line issue, NOT the married/partnered moms who say WE (single moms) shouldn't be offended.
Blue hon I don't want you to feel like you don't belong here at all. Everyone's said they do care about the women and they feel super happy for them that they've found someone, but they can't help feeling depressed having it always in their face, attached to every post, kwim? It's a constant reminder of what they don't have. Don't feel out of it, I'm partnered myself.
There was a time a few years ago when I was pregnant and alone, and quite honestly, the prospect of facing it ALONE scared me even more then the prospect of having the baby. I miscarried, but I'll always remember how I felt even fearing the idea of doing it alone. There's a lot of women here, who do it alone every single day. They fight against social stigmas, and do it all without emotional or financial support, they have to constantly fight against criticism from society as well as their own sadness and fears. I have a husband, and I don't have to face any of that. Why should I expect these girls who face so much, to conform their feelings just so I can have freedom of speech? I'm incredibly privileged, why keep announcing it and announcing it and just remind these girls over and over of what they don't have, even though it's unintentional, obviously that's what it does. On top of everything they have to go through.. why add to that? Why not just take it out, as it doesn't do anything to affect me to leave it out, but leaving it in would continue to hurt so many. On top of everything we have in our privilege, why fight against those who don't. If it hurts, it hurts, I just really don't see the point of arguing and telling people why they shouldn't be hurt.
I never thought of it that way. I guess when it's in your face all the time it does start to get to you. I'm sorry that I went on a big pity trip. I just felt kinda out-of-place.
I want to apologize to ANYONE (single... married... kidless... etc) who I might have offended with my ignorance.
I'm extremely narrowminded at times and I don't sit down and *think* before I type. I tried to understand but it wasn't really clear until I read your post. Thank you. :)
Pam, I think you've been a really good listener since you have returned to GM, so please don't get defensive or say you feel out of place here because of this thread. Just listen to what we're saying.
This isn't ABOUT the married/partnered moms. This is about the single moms who are offended that our concerns are being brushed off as not important. No one is saying we don't want to hear about your relationships, but hey, lay off on the "it makes me feel bad because no one wants to hear about how much my bf/husband loves me" stuff, ya know? It's not a big deal for you, right?
These threads ALWAYS turn into "but us married/partnered moms feel soooo bad". And it isn't supposed to make you feel bad but to recognize that we are in different positions and are looked on differently by other people. No one asks you where your bd/bf/husband is and then replies with pity when you say you don't have one.
Just realize we are not coming from the same place on this issue and it's the single moms that should be listened to about it and the signature line issue, NOT the married/partnered moms who say WE (single moms) shouldn't be offended.
I can't help that I felt bad. I wasn't trying to make people feel sorry for me and shower me with compliments or anything like that. I just spoke from the heart. I felt kind of ill. I did feel shitty after reading this thread. But now you and naivete have opened up my eyes. Like I said, I came into this thread to LEARN. I took it as an attack towards married mamas, when it really wasn't intended to be. I'm sorry.
i can surely apologize for flying off the handle. but when i think about this, it seems more broad. like first taking your so out of your line, then asking people not to post questions about so's in family and friends.... right now there are a couple of threads about trying to meet someone, or so and so's boyfriend. you know what i mean??
and naievete, im sorry you felt attacked.
and for the record i never implied nor said that "you shouldn't be offended, you're stupid if you're offended by something that LITTLE and MEANINGLESS" im simply afraid of losing teen moms who are partnered here. everytime something comes up regarding marriage we lose great valued members.
erinn, i wasn't referring to your posts at all. my posts about that were directed to earlier posts by kidless allies.
i don't think there's anything wrong with posting about their partners in our families and friends....just keep it so that it isn't like "oh my god i am sooooo lucky i have this greeaaaat life!" ya know?
I just wanted to apologize for appearing so stubborn the other day. Naivete and I were having a bit of an argument and being a little snarky to each other via PMs. We both got annoyed, and allowed some of that to become public in this thread. i am sorry that i allowed my personal disagreement to get out of hand.
While i may not understand fully why i cannot put things that are important to me in my signature line (namely, my education and finace, particualrly stuff about my education), i have removed it because I realize that it may be hurting some people.
A few issues have come up here, like educational status, that I would like to discuss more, but this isn't the place to do it. I believe that some of the comments here are hurtful not just to me, but to many here. I'll probably start a new thread later, when i get a chance.
The point is, this is a site for TEEN mamas. The majority of mama's here ARE teens. They're the ones were fighting for. They're the ones who are marginalized, who are talked about, who are put down simply becasue of their age. Their the ones who are told that they'll be NOTHING after they have their kids. This thread isn't adressing ANY of that. What it's turned into is a big partnered vs. unpartnered thread. Seems to this happens EVERY time this subject comes up.
So instead of focusing on wether it's better to be partnered/single, can we focus on what we can can do to help overcome the social stigma of being a young mama? Maybe focus on social justice a bit more, what is it, and how can we bring it about?
Lets teach each other, learn from each other, and RESPECT each other.
What can WE DO to make things easier for our young mamas?
Anyone know anything about housing discrimination? Schools that have housing for families? How to ENSURE that every mama has the RIGHT to welfare? Subsizied housing? Affordable childcare? Accesiable and affordable birth control? The right to get an abortion? Jobs based on merits? Promotions as often and equal to mens? The fact that if you're under 18 you can't drive with your kid in a car in several states?
THATS what we should focus on.
This subject never gets us anywhere, except for causing discord through the boards.
Yes, it's an important part of what we're here for, we're here to ensure that mamas who are single don't just settle for any asshole so that they can be part of the social norm. But we're also here for SO many more reasons. We can't focus on one issue soley, we have to look at the entire picture.
We do try and focus on that in every other thread of this board, but right now we want to discuss this because it's yet another thing that is hurting young parents here. It's not a partnered vs. unpartnered, there's been unpartnered people defending the partnered, and partnered people (me!) defending the unpartnered. It's more a discussion of what's appropriate in signature lines and what would be best left out, what's more important, people being able to say what they want and what's important to them, or people being free of the constant reminder of what they face irl. What's one thing we can do to fix this problem? If women agreed to not put 'Hey I'm Married!" in their signatures, then the single mama's would stop feeling depressed every time they read a post that ended in "Hey I'm Married!" because that reminder of what they don't have, wouldn't always be there. (NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING "EVERYONE DO THIS NOW" I AM MAKING THE SUGGESTION, seeing as some people had problems making the distinction before.) I still don't see mod activity in here, they probably don't even know it's continued to this point. Won't that be a shock when they check and it's 7 pages of arguments ;)
Wow. What a way to miss the fucking point. Glad this is all about you (PARTNERED!) fighting for those who aren't. It seems to me like you're using YOUR partnered status to make yourself seem better than those who aren't, in a "well, I'm partnered, but I GET IT." sort of way.
Where are all the other posts about EMPOWERING young mamas? I can't find that many. I haven't posted any, I know this, it's my fault as much as anyone elses.
I'm saying that maybe we need to step back a bit on this subject, as it's NOT GOING ANYWHERE. It never does. This isn't the first time it's come up, it's an ongoing discussion that's been occuring since the first boards.
what's happening now, are there are some mama's who are more vocal, trampeling on the voices of the mamas that need to be heard. Not in this thread as much, but several others.
i think it would be nice if someone started a thread pertaining to empowerment of young mamas but we need to get this shit resolved, too. i'm sick of hearing about it and reading 6-7 page threads on the same thing over and over when it shouldn't be such a huge issue to respect each other....
if someone says you offended them please try to get it resolved quickly on the boards or in PMs or something. and apologizing is always nice.
I was in no way insinuating what you thought I was, I was just saying it's not like a partnered vs. unpartnered war. It has gone somewhere because many people have already written that they learned something from this thread, many people have changed their signatures, and who cares if there's already been threads about it long ago? Are those threads here, or were all these women involved in those? No. And you talk about voices overpowering other people, how about someone coming into a thread and basically stating "Hey you guys, who cares if you're hurt about this? It's been said and done a million times by other people, don't try to let other people see why you're hurt or speak your opinions on it, its just utter crap and useless, shut up and go make a thread that'll be useful in my eyes".
If you don't think this thread is useful, then don't comment on it, it's about women stating their minds and trying to find a way to work together in a way that isn't offensive but still allows other women the freedom to talk about what's important to them, it's trying to see other viewpoints. It may be useless to you, but other people have already learned things about this thread and been able to speak their minds about whats hurtful to them.
it makes me feel nothing but resentment and bitter feelings when i read a thread that has gotten out of hand, and someone (in this case it was you, naivete), says "gee, where are the mods? won't they be surprised when they see how far this has gone." as though we don't care, and haha won't it be funny to see the looks on our faces when we come back to see the mess you've made.
i was on vacation. i was at a gathering that has done a tremendous amount towards teaching me better activist skills, parenting habits, and how to be a better person AND mama. i needed this weekend, and i will not apologize for not being here to post in this thread. do you all really need babysitters? girlmom as a whole has been burning out her moderators at an extremely high rate, and something has GOT to change.
what is it that mods didn't address? are our words really that valued over those of other members? and if so, why do you feel the need to disrespect other girlmoms like that?
ya know, i have a lot of really great ideas to help girlmoms move forward, but that will not come by spraying water on whoever is fighting NOW. this is getting ridiculous.
i'm locking this topic purely because the number of complaints i have gotten over the BEHAVIOUR in this thread has far outweighed any learning or unlearning we can all do with one another.
this isn't a high school locker room, and we have potential to do great things. any thread that gets this off topic or nasty will be locked, and any posters who continue discrediting or disrespecting one another will be warned, and if they ignore those warnings, they will be banned.
i am so. god. damn. tired. of breaking up arguements. this isn't a "she said this" "well you started it" "well shut up cuz i'm right and you are a bad girlmom" and worst of all "where are the mods?? don't they even CARE????" kind of site. so get over it.
feel free to start other threads about the issues raised in this one, but if the mods continue getting messages over so and so's behaviour or attitude, those will be locked too. we have bigger and better things to do than continue the kind of bitter and petty arguments like the one that went on in this thread.
kidless allies who post regarding a young MAMA hierarchy, and subsequently attach their needs to the needs of girlmoms... stop it.
this site is NOT about you, and will not cater to your needs. how dare you ask girlmoms to validate your marriage or education or other privileges.
consider this your first warning (even tho we have had countless threads over years and years regarding how kidless allies need to check themselves sometimes). anyone who continues that will be seen as a direct threat to girlmom as a site, and to the members here who are subjected to your attitudes when they already have enough to deal with.
this shouldn't even have to be said, but since it just was, i hope you were listening.
Hey Pam, you're partnered. You aren't offended by those things because you can identify with it. The focus of this site isn't on the partners of teen moms, the focus of the site is the teen moms themselves.
When I see "fiancee/husband/etc. to blah blah blah my honey bunch that I just looooove soooo much and have been together with for 23947239478 years" I want to barf. If it isn't such a big deal, can't you leave it out? I'm a single mom who would rather not be reminded that everyone else has a wonderful/awesome/devoted husband at home. ESPECIALLY the kidless allies. Fuck! I don't want to see "I will graduate in 2005 with a master's/md/phd degree in blah blah with my NEW fiancee and we're getting married on VALENTINE'S DAY and we don't have kids yet because we're smart enough to wait 'til marriage, go us, we're SO much better than you!" Of course it doesn't really say that, but that's how I feel when I read it and then I do this----> :roll:
This site is for teen moms. If it's upsetting to someone who doesn't have children to see us talking about our kids on this site or having our kids' names and birthdates in our signature lines, too bad. Seriously. Look at the name of this site! GirlMOM.
Okay... I don't approve of "oh my hubby is so lovey-dovey and I can't live without him..." But what about "Mama to Joe and Cassie, wife to Jared". Is that acceptable? Or for kidless allies "Student at Harvard, engaged to George". Something short and sweet? Is that offensive?
This is really aggravating me. Have you noticed it's the mainly partnered women saying that non partnered women shouldn't be offended, and defending it?
Anyways, the first page alone there were 4 single women who stated outright that it made them uncomfortable or depressed. We've had TWO mods already reiterate the same:
Why the hell should there be a poll? So if x% of people are offended then you guys will take it down? Why should there be a limit of people who are offended before you'll start to acknowledge the fact that you're offending or stop offending? You think people are going to outright say now, "Hey I'm offended" when so many of you have already crammed the fact that 'they shouldn't be offended' down their throats? "Hey, it's stupid of you guys to be offended, but if you're offended, speak up!" They already did, and more might have if this thread didn't take this turn. Defending those that are doing the offending and silencing the ones who are offended and hurt by it? Come on.
The point is simple, there's already people who spoke up and said outright that it hurts them. Isn't that enough? Isn't it enough that 10+ people have already said? There shouldn't be an x amount of people that someone hurts, before they're asked to stop hurting them.
I just don't see why it's necessary to include a partner/husband/whatever in your signature line. My bank account is an important part of my life but I'm not going to put the balance of it in my signature line. My parents and grandparents and best friends are an important part of my life but I'm not going to put my entire family tree on there either.
Naivete-You make a good point. Why are people saying (in not so many words) "you shouldn't be offended, you're stupid if you're offended by something that LITTLE and MEANINGLESS"? It's obviously not little and meaningless to those of us who lose a little bit of ourselves when we have to see it. And you're right, it's mostly the partnered mamas/allies telling us how dumb we are that a "little" thing like reminders of societal pressure on us to be married and have a nuclear family with our babydaddies bugs the fuck out of us.
Just an FYI....This is called girlMOM, THAT is why most people have a childs info in their signature...Because as far as status goes...there ARE status' here....girlmoms and kidless Allies, and while the allies are VERY appreciated, they are not the focus. Please try to remember that.
yes!
ok, so I am just now reading this thread and I honestly dont see why people are so adamant about keeping their husbands in their signatures.
My signature has only my name, age, and my daughters name and birthday.
Those things simply identify me and show that I am in fact a girlmom.
For the record, I am married and I realize that is a priviledge.....I spent most of my daughters life as a single parent though and I realize the upset and feeling of inferiority (sp?) being a single mom can cause. At times I felt like a strong lioness who could take on the world. And at other times I felt like a tiny speck incapable of anything productive....Those low times are when I would need support from a place like GirlMom, and at those low times seeing someones signature about their happy, perfect family would have upset me.
I dont think sometimes and I say "my husband" when Im discussing something involving him but I am trying to remember and use only his name or refer to him as my partner....
Anyways...thats just my two cents on that...
As far as education goes...I would LOOOOOOOVE to go to college but its just not a possibility for me right now and probably not any time soon. But I dont see a problem with mamas posting about their school...They've worked hard and overcome a lot to get to where they are and I am proud of them and happy for them...
I think talking about college and husbands are two completely different things. I can be happy for and proud of a mama doing what she wants with her education and putting that in her signature line. In the real world I get a lot of shit for going to college instead of "getting a real job" so I can "support my kid" instead of "mooching off the system" like someone so wonderfully put in another thread. Give me a fucking break.
I suggested a poll because I am personally interested in seeing how many people disapprove of such siggies. I didn't want it to be a contest. I didn't intend for it to say "hey... well, these people say it's okay, so therefore we should have a right to post whatever the hell we want in our siggies". I was just curious. I didn't realize that so many individuals would be offended or disgusted by people proclaiming their love and devotion for their partner. Like I said, maybe I'm ignorant because I am in a relationship. I don't know how it feels like to be in the shoes of single mothers. I am trying to understand. I'm not here to argue. I want to LEARN.
I am not calling anyone dumb. If anything I'm the person who is being stupid. I'm just confused and it kinda offends me that people think married/partnered mamas should not be able to say "hey, I'm in love and I'm happy". You gotta look at it both ways. You girls are single and it makes you mad to see wedding dates and such in siggies. Well, how do you think the partnered mamas feel? It makes us feel shitty knowing that no one cares to hear about our relationships. It's not like we're sporting big huge banners. I understand that this is a sensitive issue for some. That's why I don't have anything of the sort in my signature. I don't want to anger or hurt the other mamas here, cause I love and respect y'all no matter what I say. It just kinda hurts me... I feel like a reject... or an outcast because of my relationship status. :cry:
Look, I'm not defending the relationship siggie holders here. I could care less about putting my bf's name in my signature. I never have so that's not the issue. This thread just kind of gives me the feeling that we don't belong here, KWIM? I know that married mamas are privileged. I know that. And I acknowledge how that can piss single mothers off. I just feel so unwelcome now. I mean, I love GirlMom. I love you mamas. No one in particular has made me sad. I guess it's just the tone of this thread. I don't really feel equal anymore. I respect everyone's opinion and since the majority say "no lovey-dovey siggies" then that's the way it SHOULD be. No one should cross the line if it means hurting others. It's not a BIG DEAL to erase your siggie. It really isn't. I just feel.... weird. I don't know. I'm rambling. Maybe I should stay out of threads like this. :?
Blue hon I don't want you to feel like you don't belong here at all. Everyone's said they do care about the women and they feel super happy for them that they've found someone, but they can't help feeling depressed having it always in their face, attached to every post, kwim? It's a constant reminder of what they don't have. Don't feel out of it, I'm partnered myself.
There was a time a few years ago when I was pregnant and alone, and quite honestly, the prospect of facing it ALONE scared me even more then the prospect of having the baby. I miscarried, but I'll always remember how I felt even fearing the idea of doing it alone. There's a lot of women here, who do it alone every single day. They fight against social stigmas, and do it all without emotional or financial support, they have to constantly fight against criticism from society as well as their own sadness and fears. I have a husband, and I don't have to face any of that. Why should I expect these girls who face so much, to conform their feelings just so I can have freedom of speech? I'm incredibly privileged, why keep announcing it and announcing it and just remind these girls over and over of what they don't have, even though it's unintentional, obviously that's what it does. On top of everything they have to go through.. why add to that? Why not just take it out, as it doesn't do anything to affect me to leave it out, but leaving it in would continue to hurt so many. On top of everything we have in our privilege, why fight against those who don't. If it hurts, it hurts, I just really don't see the point of arguing and telling people why they shouldn't be hurt.
Pam, I think you've been a really good listener since you have returned to GM, so please don't get defensive or say you feel out of place here because of this thread. Just listen to what we're saying.
This isn't ABOUT the married/partnered moms. This is about the single moms who are offended that our concerns are being brushed off as not important. No one is saying we don't want to hear about your relationships, but hey, lay off on the "it makes me feel bad because no one wants to hear about how much my bf/husband loves me" stuff, ya know? It's not a big deal for you, right?
These threads ALWAYS turn into "but us married/partnered moms feel soooo bad". And it isn't supposed to make you feel bad but to recognize that we are in different positions and are looked on differently by other people. No one asks you where your bd/bf/husband is and then replies with pity when you say you don't have one.
Just realize we are not coming from the same place on this issue and it's the single moms that should be listened to about it and the signature line issue, NOT the married/partnered moms who say WE (single moms) shouldn't be offended.
I never thought of it that way. I guess when it's in your face all the time it does start to get to you. I'm sorry that I went on a big pity trip. I just felt kinda out-of-place.
I want to apologize to ANYONE (single... married... kidless... etc) who I might have offended with my ignorance.
I'm extremely narrowminded at times and I don't sit down and *think* before I type. I tried to understand but it wasn't really clear until I read your post. Thank you. :)
I can't help that I felt bad. I wasn't trying to make people feel sorry for me and shower me with compliments or anything like that. I just spoke from the heart. I felt kind of ill. I did feel shitty after reading this thread. But now you and naivete have opened up my eyes. Like I said, I came into this thread to LEARN. I took it as an attack towards married mamas, when it really wasn't intended to be. I'm sorry.
i can surely apologize for flying off the handle. but when i think about this, it seems more broad. like first taking your so out of your line, then asking people not to post questions about so's in family and friends.... right now there are a couple of threads about trying to meet someone, or so and so's boyfriend. you know what i mean??
and naievete, im sorry you felt attacked.
and for the record i never implied nor said that "you shouldn't be offended, you're stupid if you're offended by something that LITTLE and MEANINGLESS" im simply afraid of losing teen moms who are partnered here. everytime something comes up regarding marriage we lose great valued members.
erinn, i wasn't referring to your posts at all. my posts about that were directed to earlier posts by kidless allies.
i don't think there's anything wrong with posting about their partners in our families and friends....just keep it so that it isn't like "oh my god i am sooooo lucky i have this greeaaaat life!" ya know?
I just wanted to apologize for appearing so stubborn the other day. Naivete and I were having a bit of an argument and being a little snarky to each other via PMs. We both got annoyed, and allowed some of that to become public in this thread. i am sorry that i allowed my personal disagreement to get out of hand.
While i may not understand fully why i cannot put things that are important to me in my signature line (namely, my education and finace, particualrly stuff about my education), i have removed it because I realize that it may be hurting some people.
A few issues have come up here, like educational status, that I would like to discuss more, but this isn't the place to do it. I believe that some of the comments here are hurtful not just to me, but to many here. I'll probably start a new thread later, when i get a chance.
The point is, this is a site for TEEN mamas. The majority of mama's here ARE teens. They're the ones were fighting for. They're the ones who are marginalized, who are talked about, who are put down simply becasue of their age. Their the ones who are told that they'll be NOTHING after they have their kids. This thread isn't adressing ANY of that. What it's turned into is a big partnered vs. unpartnered thread. Seems to this happens EVERY time this subject comes up.
So instead of focusing on wether it's better to be partnered/single, can we focus on what we can can do to help overcome the social stigma of being a young mama? Maybe focus on social justice a bit more, what is it, and how can we bring it about?
Lets teach each other, learn from each other, and RESPECT each other.
What can WE DO to make things easier for our young mamas?
Anyone know anything about housing discrimination? Schools that have housing for families? How to ENSURE that every mama has the RIGHT to welfare? Subsizied housing? Affordable childcare? Accesiable and affordable birth control? The right to get an abortion? Jobs based on merits? Promotions as often and equal to mens? The fact that if you're under 18 you can't drive with your kid in a car in several states?
THATS what we should focus on.
This subject never gets us anywhere, except for causing discord through the boards.
Yes, it's an important part of what we're here for, we're here to ensure that mamas who are single don't just settle for any asshole so that they can be part of the social norm. But we're also here for SO many more reasons. We can't focus on one issue soley, we have to look at the entire picture.
We do try and focus on that in every other thread of this board, but right now we want to discuss this because it's yet another thing that is hurting young parents here. It's not a partnered vs. unpartnered, there's been unpartnered people defending the partnered, and partnered people (me!) defending the unpartnered. It's more a discussion of what's appropriate in signature lines and what would be best left out, what's more important, people being able to say what they want and what's important to them, or people being free of the constant reminder of what they face irl. What's one thing we can do to fix this problem? If women agreed to not put 'Hey I'm Married!" in their signatures, then the single mama's would stop feeling depressed every time they read a post that ended in "Hey I'm Married!" because that reminder of what they don't have, wouldn't always be there. (NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING "EVERYONE DO THIS NOW" I AM MAKING THE SUGGESTION, seeing as some people had problems making the distinction before.) I still don't see mod activity in here, they probably don't even know it's continued to this point. Won't that be a shock when they check and it's 7 pages of arguments ;)
Wow. What a way to miss the fucking point. Glad this is all about you (PARTNERED!) fighting for those who aren't. It seems to me like you're using YOUR partnered status to make yourself seem better than those who aren't, in a "well, I'm partnered, but I GET IT." sort of way.
Where are all the other posts about EMPOWERING young mamas? I can't find that many. I haven't posted any, I know this, it's my fault as much as anyone elses.
I'm saying that maybe we need to step back a bit on this subject, as it's NOT GOING ANYWHERE. It never does. This isn't the first time it's come up, it's an ongoing discussion that's been occuring since the first boards.
what's happening now, are there are some mama's who are more vocal, trampeling on the voices of the mamas that need to be heard. Not in this thread as much, but several others.
right on mouse
i think it would be nice if someone started a thread pertaining to empowerment of young mamas but we need to get this shit resolved, too. i'm sick of hearing about it and reading 6-7 page threads on the same thing over and over when it shouldn't be such a huge issue to respect each other....
if someone says you offended them please try to get it resolved quickly on the boards or in PMs or something. and apologizing is always nice.
I was in no way insinuating what you thought I was, I was just saying it's not like a partnered vs. unpartnered war. It has gone somewhere because many people have already written that they learned something from this thread, many people have changed their signatures, and who cares if there's already been threads about it long ago? Are those threads here, or were all these women involved in those? No. And you talk about voices overpowering other people, how about someone coming into a thread and basically stating "Hey you guys, who cares if you're hurt about this? It's been said and done a million times by other people, don't try to let other people see why you're hurt or speak your opinions on it, its just utter crap and useless, shut up and go make a thread that'll be useful in my eyes".
If you don't think this thread is useful, then don't comment on it, it's about women stating their minds and trying to find a way to work together in a way that isn't offensive but still allows other women the freedom to talk about what's important to them, it's trying to see other viewpoints. It may be useless to you, but other people have already learned things about this thread and been able to speak their minds about whats hurtful to them.
it makes me feel nothing but resentment and bitter feelings when i read a thread that has gotten out of hand, and someone (in this case it was you, naivete), says "gee, where are the mods? won't they be surprised when they see how far this has gone." as though we don't care, and haha won't it be funny to see the looks on our faces when we come back to see the mess you've made.
i was on vacation. i was at a gathering that has done a tremendous amount towards teaching me better activist skills, parenting habits, and how to be a better person AND mama. i needed this weekend, and i will not apologize for not being here to post in this thread. do you all really need babysitters? girlmom as a whole has been burning out her moderators at an extremely high rate, and something has GOT to change.
what is it that mods didn't address? are our words really that valued over those of other members? and if so, why do you feel the need to disrespect other girlmoms like that?
ya know, i have a lot of really great ideas to help girlmoms move forward, but that will not come by spraying water on whoever is fighting NOW. this is getting ridiculous.
i'm locking this topic purely because the number of complaints i have gotten over the BEHAVIOUR in this thread has far outweighed any learning or unlearning we can all do with one another.
this isn't a high school locker room, and we have potential to do great things. any thread that gets this off topic or nasty will be locked, and any posters who continue discrediting or disrespecting one another will be warned, and if they ignore those warnings, they will be banned.
i am so. god. damn. tired. of breaking up arguements. this isn't a "she said this" "well you started it" "well shut up cuz i'm right and you are a bad girlmom" and worst of all "where are the mods?? don't they even CARE????" kind of site. so get over it.
feel free to start other threads about the issues raised in this one, but if the mods continue getting messages over so and so's behaviour or attitude, those will be locked too. we have bigger and better things to do than continue the kind of bitter and petty arguments like the one that went on in this thread.
and one more thing....
kidless allies who post regarding a young MAMA hierarchy, and subsequently attach their needs to the needs of girlmoms... stop it.
this site is NOT about you, and will not cater to your needs. how dare you ask girlmoms to validate your marriage or education or other privileges.
consider this your first warning (even tho we have had countless threads over years and years regarding how kidless allies need to check themselves sometimes). anyone who continues that will be seen as a direct threat to girlmom as a site, and to the members here who are subjected to your attitudes when they already have enough to deal with.
this shouldn't even have to be said, but since it just was, i hope you were listening.
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