I think this is all garbage.......I think that this is the way of the government beginning to try to ban abortion. If they tell everyone who receives federal money cannot cover abortion services then they are forcing women to pay for it themselves.....or to do it themselves, which could be pur chaos and harm to the female community......Im at work so thats all I have to contribute now but again....just plain garbage.

To be honest, I'm so confused about the healthcare bill and what the hell a public option means that I've avoided anything about the US healthcare system. I understand it is to ban federal money being used to pay for abortions, but that's about all I know.

It's so fucked up and hard to understand anybody being opposed to a system where if someone needs healthcare, they have access to it. No matter what kind of care they need. The reasoning I've heard is that tax payers shouldn't have to pay for something they are morally opposed to, so will the ban have the potential to cover other things (like birth control), or is it strictly abortion? Does it ban coverage for all abortions, even to save the life of the mother, or selective reduction to give one fetus a better chance?

To be honest, I'm so confused about the healthcare bill and what the hell a public option means that I've avoided anything about the US healthcare system. I understand it is to ban federal money being used to pay for abortions, but that's about all I know.

It's so fucked up and hard to understand anybody being opposed to a system where if someone needs healthcare, they have access to it. No matter what kind of care they need. The reasoning I've heard is that tax payers shouldn't have to pay for something they are morally opposed to, so will the ban have the potential to cover other things (like birth control), or is it strictly abortion? Does it ban coverage for all abortions, even to save the life of the mother, or selective reduction to give one fetus a better chance?

it doesnt ban all abortions, only elective ones not resulting from rape, incest or being dangerous to the mother.

I'm finding it pretty confusing as well CanadianMamma, and I can't wrap my head around how it's controversial that all people should have health care either. Bizarre.

And I can't say I'm very impressed from what I have rea. From what I understand they are saying that the bill provides a buncha money so that most people will have health insurance (something like 95% of people should be covered now? I wonder who the 5% not covered will be?) and that none of this money can go towards abortions. I'm confused about if it says that no gov't money at all can go towards abortions, or if it's just the stuff from this bill.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I find the American system of health care really confusing. Not that ours isn't confusing either, but I think it's more straightforward.

It actually bans anyone who receives state funding for their health insurance from using their insurance plan to cover "elective abortion" (what mom2be explained) even if they will use their own money to pay for the coverage. I agree it is totally fucked. Its like, for the better of our nation, women have to pay the price by effectively losing a reproductive right. And they argue that many women do not use their insurance to pay for abortions anyway, even if they have coverage, so they don't leave a paper trail. But that is bullshit for 2 reasons. First, its one thing to pay for an abortion when it costs like 600$, but what about women who need an emergency abortion or one after 9 weeks? The price goes way up. Also, as we all know the economy is not doing so hot, I'm guessing many women that could have paid for abortions out of pocket a few years ago probably cannot do so now. And like, hello classism! Apparently in the US access to basic liberties is based on monetary worth. *eyeroll*

I think partially the reason why people are so apathetic about the whole thing is we're sick of the debates! It just seems so impossible to get anything done with health care reform. I personally know that I have tuned out a lot of other things about it, because it just seems like with all this politicking going down shit just isn't getting done and the republicans are trying to whittle the bill down to the point that it doesn't make a difference whether it is passed or not. Not that the dems are doing any better... Anyway.

And yes CanadianMamma it is because tax payers shouldn't have to pay for something they disagree with partly... or so the argument goes. But again, that is bullshit because the whole principle of paying taxes is not that you get to choose where your money goes. If I had a choice, I would send it all to education and none to the military. But logic and reason never go very far in these types of debates it seems! Well anyway, yeah it totally pisses me off and sickens me to no end that this is an acceptable form of "change" and that something this restrictive could actually get signed into law.

*not state funding but federal funding

This whole thing makes me so depressed. I'll call my senators, but after that, there's nothing left for me to do. The whole government system is corrupt. As far as I'm concerned, if this shit continues and the US bans legal abortion completely I'll be learning the procedure myself as soon as possible. Start up a underground clinic again like Jane. And what's the percentage of men representing the US? None of them will never have to face an unexpected pregnancy, the bastards.

Err, so how does federal funding for health insurance work? See, I was under the impression that the healthcare reform had to with creating a public insurance option that people could choose instead of their private insurance company. Is there (or is there going to be) federal funding to subsidize private insurance payments as well. Or is it that people using the public option, COBRA or medicaid will not be able to be covered, but people using private insurance will? I'm sorry, I know I'm very ignorant about how this all works, and I really have tried to keep up on it, but it's really confusing coming from a system so completely different. Maybe we need a separate thread about health care reform so as not to take away from the right to choice discussion?

It seems pretty arbitrary, using the argument that you shouldn't have to pay taxes towards something that you are morally against. I mean, how many people are going to agree that blood transfusions shouldn't be covered because some religions are opposed to them? Or anything and everything having to do with psychiatry? Or vaccinations (specifically ones cultured in eggs because there are a lot of people who are morally opposed to using any animal products/biproduct)?

I would like to refuse for my taxes to go towards any Conservative or member of parliament's salary. Can I do that? ...No? Hmph.

CanadianMama, I couldn't even explain it to ya. I kept up on it for awhile, but everywhere I look, news organizations aren't even able to give straight answers to simple questions. I've stopped reading, it's all gotten to be too much. I'm glad something went through in the line of a public option, even if I don't know what it all means, but jeez, it's confusing.

CM, I think the way it will work is because everyone will be legally required to have health insurance, the government will subsidize payments for people who can't afford it on a sliding scale. Those people will not be allowed to get the elective abortion coverage, even if they pay with their own money for that portion of the coverage. The "public option" that you've been hearing about is just an alternative to buying ins. from a private corporation... somewhat. I think the way it works is the government will somehow have an insurance option that is partly paid for with federal money and partly paid for by private companies. Then people can buy insurance from the government if they choose, but still can also buy from the many insurance companies out there. I think the reasoning behind it is to keep up competition and drive the prices down or something like that. What I am actually confused about though is if the public option will even offer elective abortion coverage at all.. Yes I agree it is all very convoluted and doesn't really make much sense especially if you are coming from a single payer system (which personally I think would make things so much easier in the US but that would never fly.)

So, the things we've been hearing about people possibly being fined and arested for not having health insurance, is that true then? I can't fathom it being a positive change to say, oh hey these people are so poor that they cannot afford health insurance, so we'll force them to pay for insurance, but it will be cheaper because the government is subsidizing it. The government's ability to judge what people can afford (with sliding scale guidelines) is generally pretty shitty. Will the public option at least not have a pre-existing condition clause?

Are they making it this confusing on purpose so nobody knows what the hell is going on?

Is this going to make it so that less people have real access to abortion? Or is it a way to make sure that people that can't afford an abortion now will not have an easier time affording one under the new plan?