*TRIGGER* 9 year old shots mother and self

I hate guns. I abhor them. I always thought they should be banned. If they were, though, our government would still have them. Stockpiles of guns..

I wish guns could be removed from the hands of everyone - everyday people and the governments of the world. That will never happen, though. While governments can claim to be making moves in "our best interest", all while using guns to cause mass destruction....should we remove them from the average person who may need one to protect themselves oneday from the people working "for us"? I don't trust our government, I don't trust any government (yes, I must sound like a raving lunatic).

I never plan on owning a gun, they share the jeebus out of me. I do plan on learning how to operate one someday, if I can get the courage up. You never know... (I'm really not a crazed conspiracy theorist)

My thoughts on gun control:
I'm upset that they lifted the assult weapons ban, and I'm more upset that they're trying to pass a law in Florida that gives a person the right to shoot first if they feel they are being mortally threatened (I can just see criminals using this in their own defense *sigh*). But I am not upset that Americans have the right to bear arms. We have a gun in our house that the children do not know about. It stays locked up in a place they don't have access to, but that my fiance and myself could get to in an emergency. The son (14) is taught that guns are not "cool", they are used for hunting (this is South Carolina afterall) and self defense if someone were to break into a house. His attitude toward guns shows that he's learned what his father has taught him. I plan on raising our daughter the same way.

If that child was serious about what he was doing (and apparently he was) a gun wasn't going to be the deciding factor. He could've used any other method to carry out his plan.

I do not have a gun, will NEVER have a gun, and don't think that anyone else should either.

If your house is broken into, that's the type of thing people automatically think "oh, I should have a gun just in case" but what are the chances of you having the opportunity and the time to run, unlock the case, assemble the gun, etc, in time anyways?

I have a golf club in my room, a baseball bat in the front entry closet, and various other household items around the place that can work for self defence just fine, plus a course under my belt for kick boxing, and one hell of a mean attitude when threatened. At least with those, there is ZERO chance, ever, that my son will accidentally shoot himself or anyone else.

There's so many kids who accidentally get shot every year. If you ask every one of those parents, I bet you their guns were 'locked' and 'safe' and they had 'taught their kids to never touch them'. Point is, freak accidents still happen, things can still go wrong, and there's always other things you can use that aren't as dangerous and still just as effective.

Plus, I'm terrified of them, so. yeah.

The gun we have is in a place the kids *can't* find it (trust me on this one). That's the whole point. They don't even know we *own* one - so it's not like they're going to purposefully seek it out.

You're never going to be able to take the guns out of everyone's hands. Criminals will always have access to them... and as that is the case, I'm going to have access to one as well. That's just my thought on the issue.

But I was raised around guns.. know how to use one.. and don't think they're the root of all evil - it's the person behind the gun that matters.

I don't think kids can fully realize that gun shots are fatal. If a kid was going to kill his mother by another method like stabbing, beating, poisoning, I don't know what else..use your imagination...the kid is more likely to fail-injuring rather than killing-same with suicide

Personally, I would not want a gun in my house.

I hate the gun law in Minnesota too. While you do need a license to carry one, it puts more guns in homes and a larger quanitiy of guns means they are more accesible to others. Chances are they are not always locked and stored properly.

No, you can never take the guns out of EVERYONE'S hands, however in countries with stricter gun control laws, the rate of accidental and intentional gun deaths are DRAMATICALLY fewer. The amount of people who died in the 9/11 terrorist attacks are saved every year in those countries.

You say this 9-year-old child could have carried out this murder/suicide without a gun. I would like to ask how? Okay, maybe a knife; but the reality is it is difficult to kill someone with a knife, especially if they are larger than you are and you are not skilled with a knife; especially if you are a child.

**SUICIDE TRIGGER**
People commit suicide, and it's true if they are at that point they have many methods to do it. But I personally feel access to a gun makes it too easy. Other methods of suicide all involve extreme suffering and a good chance of a long drawn out death. Everyone that I know who has commited suicide, did so with a gun kept in their own homes. This is anecdotal, but I believe a gun, with it's promise of a nearly guaranteed instantaneous death, plus it's availability, can make it too tempting for someone who otherwise might be put off by other methods of suicide. That pause for thought could save their lives. It wouldn't be that easy for a nine year old to rig up a rope with which to hang himself, or to know exactly which medicines in what amounts will kill him; there would be time for someone to come along and perhaps save their life. Yet it takes two seconds to grab a gun that is already in your house; it takes two seconds to pull that trigger. A two year old could (and has) easily managed it. And then it's over. There is no time to think or react, no going back, no poison control center; it's done. A gun is instant death.

My mom is of the opinion that she would not feel safe in a country where only the government had control of guns. Our government has the nuclear bomb; would you feel safer if everyday citizens had it too? Would that be preferable? Or would the most preferable situation be NO ONE has it, and then the next preferable thing would be ONLY our government? Because that's the way I see it. At least when it's the government with the guns, they are not in homes with children. They are not in the hands of drug dealers. I guess this means that I DO trust governments, just a little bit; I trust that there will always be a greater likelihood of a system of checks and balances with them. I would rather take my chances with the United States government being in possession of guns, than the current state of affairs where nine year olds commit murder suicides, where four year olds shoot themselves in the head.

Ha Leilia! You've gone and put my opinion back to it's original state. You've swayed me back to your side, especially with your rebuttal to your mom's arguement. Thanks..

The difference is that I *don't* trust our government. *shrug*

And this child, according to his family, showed no signs that he would ever do something like this. When things are unexpected, you don't have your guard up.. it's easier to carry out something horrible like that. I'm sure his mother never expected it.

Yes, your suicide anecdote is just that. Everyone *I* know has tried to commit suicide with a knife to the wrist or ODing on pills. I don't think many people who are genuinely serious about committing suicide care about the pain involved.

I would prefer if no one had guns. But we'll never live in a utopian society where all is perfect and no violence is occuring. We'll never live in a country where only the government has the guns, either. So, as I said before, as long as the criminals have them - I will too.

I don't think that's what she was getting at. I think she meant that other methods are reversible. If you slit your wrists and then realize you don't want to die, you can go to a hospital. If you OD, you can call poison control (or anyone else who finds you can). If you shoot yourself in the head - game over, no changing your mind, no hope of a rescue. A few of my friends who attempted, are ones that were SO sure they were serious about it beforehand, they just KNEW it was the right thing to do, and then once it was done - they panicked, changed their mind, and then turned it around. If they had the temptation of access to a gun, there wouldn't have been a turn around.

I just don't see the point, personally. If a robber busts in your house and into your bedroom, which do you think would be quicker and more easily accessible? a) running to grab the keys to the gun case, going to wherever you hid the gun case, assembling the gun and shooting? or b) reaching under your bed, and grabbing the bat. If you're in serious danger, in need of a gun, chances are you wouldn't have the opportunity to even try to get it. In that case though, as compared to if my son had found my oh so safe gun space (which is always a possibility), if he found my bat, it couldn't any way in hell accidentally shoot him in the head.

If you have a bat and the robber has a gun, you don't stand a chance. And "assemble" the gun?? I don't have to put it all together, I grab it, turn off the safety and shoot.

The problem is that kids in a house with a gun are often not brought up to respect them. Either the parents say "there is a gun, don't touch it" and leave the kid to push the boundaries, or they don't lock it away safely where a child cannot get to it.

If you don't want a gun in your house, that's fine, but there's no reason to deny me or anyone else the right to one. I assume all responsibility on raising my daughter around a gun.. just as I assume responsibility for all the choices I make in her regard.

I was raised around guns aswell and Naivette, that was my dad's point exactly. He wasn't going to store the guns and the bullets in seperate lock boxes. He kept it in his dresser drawer and sometimes on the kitchen counter cause if the house ever was broken into that's where he would need it.

But I don't know. I think this is one of those things where everybody needs to make the decision for themselves. I personally don't trust my government and want to hold on to all my constitutional righs. And I'll kick and scream to do it.

When I was growing up I understood very well that a gun is for killing people, to assume all guns are loaded, to never trust a safety lock and to never touch one. Not all kids are going to be that fearful or respectful of them, so parents need to know their kids and decide if that's a risk they want to take. I don't have a gun and I thought about getting one but decided not to. I don't feel confident enough that I could use one if my house was being broken into and that lack of confidence would probably be more dangerous to me.

I didn't read every post word for word, so I hope I'm not repeating anyone, but there's that saying, "if guns were outlawed, only outlaws woul have guns," which is true in many ways. But I believe that guns are, plain and simple, bad. I don't think that ending a life should ever be so simple.

Truth be told, criminals with guns are usually less dangerous than those with knives though. I don't know how many of you have shot a gun before, but it is fucking hard to aim them. Far more criminals use them purely for intimidation. Knives on the other hand, are more likely to be carried by someone who knows how to use them, and who has done so before.

I think the argument about having a gun for protection is dumb. And we already have viagra, what the fuck is the point, guys? Guns should not be in our homes. period. but it may be that there is no good way to make that a reality. I'm not too trusting of our government either.

One thing I do know is that guns should be removed from the media alltogether. Films with real fight scenes are more exciting that films with gun fights anyway. I think the exposure kids have to guns in movies and on TV is REPULSIVE, and I think it is partly responsible for the liklihood of a young person to pick one up. I don't want to go blaming this incedent on what the hell TV show the boy watched, but gun violence in the media is out of control.

and effigie, I didn't mean to make that come out like a personal attack. I am a little bit torn in reality, because I do believe that we should be able to make these decisions ourselves, BUT we are seeing really clearly that not everyone is capable of teaching this kind of responsibility.

You know, one accident where a kid shows his buddy a gun and someone gets hurt is one thing. Terrible still, but it is very different from what the last several years have shown us. there have so many cases of young people using guns to murder. What we are doing now is not working. Something has to change, you know?

I don't trust our government either, but I trust the white supremists down the street even less. Hell, I trust my own neighbors even less. When I was a child, I went over to a neighbors house and had a gun pointed at my head by their child who "didn't know where the gun was." My parents had known these people for years and had no idea that they even had a gun. The children had been taught to respect the guns, to hunt; that didn't stop this child from thinking it would be funny to take out the gun and point it at my head.

Like I said, I would rather take my chances with not having guns in the unlikely even that we need to overthrow our government, than to just accept the reality where children and innocent people are being shot and killed. First of all, I am a firm believer that you can change things without violence. If it came down to it, between us and the government, and the contest was "who has the best automatic weapon," with or without guns we're the loosing party there guys. When it comes to a battle of force, it matters very little who is right and who is wrong. Brute force is what matters.

What about peaceful resolutions? What about Nelson Mandela? What about teaching our children that violence is not the answer? Are these just ideals that we pay lipservice to, but don't really believe? Do you honestly feel that the slim possibility of a future battle is enough of a reason that so many people needlessly die today?

word.

Another reason why I don't watch TV, violent movies of any sort around Treyton, or buy the 'play weapons'. My son's doing just fine with his squirt umbrella, instead of a squirt gun.

I didn't say anything about keeping a gun because I felt we'd have to revolt against our government or any of that. I said I had it for protection, plain and simple. If it ever came down to "us or them" then.. there's no doubt in my mind that the government would win.

If someone is not capable of teaching their child how to act around a gun, then no, they shouldn't be allowed to have one in the home. I'm in agreement with many gun control laws.. I even think a person wanting to own a gun should have to go through a training and competency course. I don't agree with having a gun outside the home (like a concealed weapon in a public place, or even in your car). For us, it's a household protection that we can fall back on.

I bet you though, if you ask the parent of any child who's accidentally shot themselves or someone else, like 80% would tell you:

1. Their child knew about guns and knew to NEVER touch one.
2. Their gun was in a place not accessible to their child.

Everyone says that. And obviously, kids are still getting killed and hurt.

It'd be too big of a risk for me to take, regardless of where I put it, how it was stored, and what I'd told my kid about it.

I think this is the only point in which I deviate from traditional holy all the way left wing liberal politics.

As in, I was raised around guns and I fully intend to own one if I move out of this area I live in now. when I lived in the city I got my car windows shot out twice (I wasn't in the car), random gunfire aimed at my apartment windows one night, someone I knew was shot to death one block from my apartment, and one week after I moved out a gang member was found IN MY ALLEY, next to MY DAMN HOUSE, THREE FEET from my old doorstep, shot to death.

and thank you very much, I want to be able to shoot back.

mae said:
I wish guns could be removed from the hands of everyone - everyday people and the governments of the world. That will never happen, though. While governments can claim to be making moves in "our best interest", all while using guns to cause mass destruction....should we remove them from the average person who may need one to protect themselves oneday from the people working "for us"? I don't trust our government, I don't trust any government (yes, I must sound like a raving lunatic).

not a lunatic at all; those are my views as well. I am all in favor for tighter gun restrictions, raising price and taxes, et cetera, though. too many people have them that scare me. they're way too easy to get.

but here's the thing: it's real tough to regulate the black market and illegal weapons. where I used to live, if I walked for five blocks in a certain direction with a few hundred dollars in my pocket, I could have a Glock 9mm within an hour. the city cracked down really hard on illegal weapons, but cops can't stop everything. this world is too dangerous for me to want to be without protection. I believe in peaceful resolution, I love the concept, and I like to think I work for it, but it's not yet an applicable reality and I am not willing to gamble with my safety.

my dad taught me how to handle a rifle by age nine. I could handle a handgun by age fourteen. I'm a damn good shot. I've also been involved in martial arts weapons/weapons defense training. I don't think guns are hard to handle or being a bad shot is possible if you practice with it. you just have to go to a shooting gallery and work with your gun, get used to it, until it's as part of you as making a fist to hit someone. that is if you are going to use one at all.

I'm not afraid of knives in the slightest. there's not enough stopping power behind one, and it is very easy to disarm someone with one. other people having guns, leaving me at a disadvantage, does.

shygrrl666 said:

"I don't think kids can fully realize that gun shots are fatal. If a kid was going to kill his mother by another method like stabbing, beating, poisoning, I don't know what else..use your imagination...the kid is more likely to fail-injuring rather than killing-same with suicide ."

so totally agree with you. and in the case if/when I bear a child, I think the safest method is to give up the right to bear guns; but I also would move from an area that made it "necessary" to have a gun if possible. Some kids can understand it: I could. Some kids can't. I would not want to take the chance that my kid was one of the "couldn'ts."

I'm sorry, you guys, but these excuses don't fly if you look at the statistics. Have you SEEN the statistics for countries which have banned guns, and instituted much harsher punishments for any crime commited with a gun? Gun murders dropped DRAMATICALLY. So many less people died, that we could save the entire tower full of people on 9/11. Men, women, children, husbands, wives, sisters, children, THESE PEOPLE WOULD NOT HAVE DIED. Yeah, it's hard to get EVERY gun out of the hands of EVERY criminal, but apparently it's not that hard because other countries have managed to do a good enough job of it that less people are dying. You are MORE likely to die here of being shot, than you are there. Plain and simple. Even with a gun in your house, probably ESPECIALLY with a gun in your house. You are safer from guns when there are no guns, than you are when there are guns and you have one too.

This is a simple case of fear overriding logic. Yes, it's natural to feel afraid, but you've got to look at the truth behind your fear, and ask if it's valid. Look at how the government uses fear to play us. "AH, Anthrax, AHHH! We're all going to die, buy face masks, AHHH! Red alert! Red alert! Everyone get ready to dieeeeeee!" We have elected a president on fear, yet how many of us feel safer now?

None of us are safe in a world with guns, NONE of us. Not if we have guns, not if we don't.

Hey, if there were legislation out there that would reliably remove even *most* of the guns out of the hands of criminals, then I would give up having one in the house.

But there's not. And until that point, I will continue to exercise my right to bear arms.