Guilt and the way we talk about sexual abuse (may trigger)

There are some really good childrens books out there on dealing with this subject. My mom had one for us when I was little. I'm going to see if I can find any info on them.

awesome question. riley had a unusaully hard time seeing a male doctor. she did not want to be touched by him at all, and it realy scared me, like did i force to much of my talk on her???

the issue i have with "don't talk to strangers, etc" is that so many instances of abuse happen at the hands of people that aren't strangers at all, you know. so in some ways i think it sends mixed signals.

another thing i remember hearing (oprah? npr? can't remember the source) is that the "dont talk to strangers" thing hasn't been proven to work in instances where perpetrators tell the (usually very young) kids that they aren't strangers at all but are friends of mommy, or some thing that may sound okay to the young child. in this thing i heard (man i wish i could remember what it was) they taught children to, more than anything, trust instincts, whether it be a stranger or a grandparent or friend of a parent or whatever.

that said, i am trying really hard to instill a sense of empoewrment in my son as well as teach him that he, too, has to respect other people's boundaries with their bodies. it's a hard issue, i pretty much tell him that certain things are "ours" and we have to let people know as soon as that makes us incomfortable. sadly he is showing it off in saying i'm not allowed to give him kisses anymore :cry:

your totally right vig, we talk more about good and bad touch. but she wouldnt let my dad give her a bath the other day. he was a man giving her a bath. what about that

Here is how I dealt with it with Destiny.

I told her that NO ONE had the right to touch her body in ANY WAY that made her sad, scared, hurt, or uncomfortable.

That if anyone ever touched her like that she needed to tell me.

I told her that sometimes doctors have to touch us in ways that we dont really like because they have to make sure all of our parts are healthy but that doctors can be trusted....and that if she ever has a doctor do something she thinks isnt right then she needs to tell someone.....

She also is NOT comfortable with having a male doctor so I make sure she always sees a female doctor..

People put so much emphasis on "dont let someone touch your PRIVATE parts" but I made sure to tell Destiny that it doesnt even matter if its just her ARM...if she doesnt want someone to touch her and they still do and shes uncomfortable....then THEY are wrong because it is HER body....... Also, I make sure to tell her that if something ever did happen that it is NOT her fault...even if someone tells her I will be mad or she will be in trouble...she still needs to tell me because I love her no matter what and it would not be her fault and I would make sure whoever hurt her PAID!!!!!!!!!

Have any of you read Protecting The Gift, by Gavin DeBecker? It is an excellent book and I sincerely believe every parent needs to read it.

I think it's this book you are thinking of Vig. In the book DeBecker talks about an experiment they did on Oprah. They had parents who SWORE their children would never walk off with a stranger bring. The kids were brought to a park and then they had the parents hide while the kids played and a "stranger" drove up to try and lure the children away. Every single child went with the stranger, including kids in the 7-10yr range I believe.

Basically "the gift" that DeBecker discuss is that of a persons own intution. He talks a lot about how in this society people, especially women, are taught to ignore our instincts about people because it isn't "polite." He talks a lot about how it IS okay to tell someone to back the heck off just because they are creeping you out and that if you get bad vibes from a person their is probably a reason for that.

Another great part of the book is how you shouldn't tell children to be scared of all strangers. That ideally you should allow your child to talk to strangers, but that if a child is getting bad vibes from a person or doesn't want to talk to someone honor that and let the child know it's okay.

His point was that if your child is seperated from you the safest course of action is for your child to seek out someone like a salesclerk rather than to have someone seek out your child. He also talks about encouraging your child to look for a woman because statistically that is the safest bet.

That's really only the surface of the book, it's much more detailed and just excellent. He also has a book for adults called The Gift of Fear.

The biggest problem I have with the whole "stranger danger" thing that we all got indoctrinated with when I was at school is that most abusers are known by the victim.

So, while there is no way on earth I would encourage my son to go wandering off with strangers I am more interested in making sure that the people that surround us are as safe as I can be sure they are. I am also totally about teaching him to trust his intuition and listening to him when he tells me there are people he doesn't feel good around.

At this point though, he is only 3 and at this point he isn't going to be around any one except totally trusted friends and family.

Yeah. Statistically, most cases of child abuse and molestation are by someone the child knows and is close to/trusts. I was taught all about yelling "This man isn't my daddy!" if a stranger touched me, and making sure that teachers and neighbors didn't do anything to me, but then I was molested by someone close to my family, a "great guy," someone that everyone trusted and loved and looked up to. So that was hard to deal with, because child molestors were supposed to be those fictionalized creepy men in the bushes, not someone I sat down to dinner with every night.

I like what Mandy said--that you should tell your kids that no one should touch them in ways that make them uncomfortable, family or strangers, period. I hate how adults don't respect children's boundaries--they demand hugs and affection, even when kids don't want to be hugged or kissed, and things like that. That's not abuse, but it sets up a feeling in the child that they can't say no to their aunt who begs for a kiss because that would hurt their feelings, and leads to children not feeling ok about setting up boundaries.

Good topic, Betty.

i didn't get the from the original post betty, sorry.

i think the important thing, and it is important not just in these situations but across the board, is showing your children that there is mutual respect in your relationship. like i expect my son to listen to me and in turn i listen to him.

if we let our kids know that no. matter. what. we will listen to them and believe them if they are saying someone hurt, scared, touched, whatever them then that will increase the chances of themcoming to us immediately. i know there is no guarantee because, especially the "trusteed" adults that do the horrible things can instill a lot of fear and guilt into kids.

the scary part is the education of reality. do we tell our kids that if someone older, bigger, whatever wants to abuse them that they will succeed? i don't know. i guess we tell our kids 1)how to avoid those situations as much as possible 2)that we will believe them and stand by what they tell us if something happens and 3)that they are absolutely never ever ever to blame in these situations. that the person who committed the act is 100% responsible.

ugh. so scary.

Tophers three, so this isn't something I've really talked with him about, and I never even thought to tell him to tell someone to stop. Maybe when he gets back, I'll talk more in depth with him about that.

What I have told him is that if anyone touches his private parts, or hurts him, he needs to tell me, because I'm his "mama friend" and I need to know who's touching him. That caused a little problem for awhile, he'd come home from my mom's and tell me: "i pooped and papa/grammy/sissy wiped my private parts.", but I'd rather hear about everytime he poops than miss the time that someone touches him in a wrong way. ( I trust my parents, don't get me wrong.. it's other people that I don't)

And he knows that we DON'T keep secrets from each other, and he has to tell me everytime someone say "don't tell your mommy." Which doesn't really help B when he's trying to surprise me with a gift, and Toph knows what it is..... "mama, daddy has *this* for you, and he told me it's a secret." He's also kinda turned into a tattletale on his ncle because of this, he'll come home and tell me "i got to play with a super soaker, but brian said not to tell you cause you'll be mad at us" LOL, I just tell him I'm not mad at anyone, and that I'm so proud that he told me.

And he knows that if we're in a store and we get lost from each other, he just needs to sit down and yell, "I lost my mommy" or find a police officer/security guard, or someone that works there, and that he has to tell them he has to STAY there until I come get him. I figure it won't be too hard for the employee to page me to the area, and more than likely I'll hear him yelling. Mind you, I don't know how well this will work, as we've never actually tried it, but I'm hoping it will. I think any employee/person that just wanted to help, would understand that he's not supposed to go with anyone he doesn't know.

I think that at his age now, he doesn't really need to be told that it's wrong for someone to touch him, as that will bring shame/guilt, and while he might already feel like that, I don't want him to be too scared to tell me. That's the same reason I don't tell him that I'll hurt/kill somone.

Sorry for the long ramble, those are my thoughts, and what I've done so far. This thread has really made me think about what I need to do to protect him in the future, and give him the means to PREVENT things from happening to him, and making him feel strong about his voice.

Sorry, I was responding to the posts that followed yours, not the original one...should have been more clear.