So.. I am hoping I say this all right, in a non offensive way, because that isnt my intention. This is something however, that a few people I have talked to are aware of and I wish there was some way to change it.
I have noticed that alot of posts are perceived as being judgemental, attacking, bragging, or whatever, are instantly jumped on. Alot of people who just want answers to questions end up having their queries ignored as the following posts turn into debates. Alot of the time, people reply back with alot of sarcasaim, using condesending language and disregarding the feelings of the person they are attacking. Its almost as if, if someone says something that the majority of posters disagrees upon, it gives full rights to squash that persons opinions down. Theres also alot of hipocrisy, alot of people making harsh judgements against others, and then turnning around and getting angry at people for juding.
I think alot of this, almost all of this, could be avoided by a little more communication. Alot of the time a big fight starts, when someone misunderstands the meaning of what someone else is trying to say, and that person becomes defensive, and then everyone jumps in.
But I dont want to just complain about something and not do anything about it. I wanted to open a discussion about this, maybe make people aware that there is a problem, and offer some suggestions on what I think could help this problem. I think this is an amazing board, and if we all respected each other a little more there wouldnt be so many hurt feelings and harsh words.
I think one way to solve alot of problems, would be to clarify before you respond to a post. Instead of instantly assuming they mean what you are thinking they mean, just ask. PM them or msn or post to them. Just ask, what did you mean by that, because I took it this way but I realize that maybe you ment it in a way I am not seeing. Just that simple action would clear up so much misunderstanding and stop alot of fights from happening.
Refrain from being super sarcastic. Ive never had this directed by me, but It still bothers me so much when I see girls being horribly sarcastic to others. The whole "thanks, thanks alot" attitude really doesnt acheive anything but hurting the feelings of others, and putting people into angry defensive moods.
Being really condesending. We all hate it when people patronize us, I dont see why we think its okay to do it to eachother. Just because someone said something wrong, or something you dont agree with, or something you think is stupid, dosent make it okay to treat them as a lesser person.
Use PM's more... sometimes it seems like theres no reason for a post other then to draw attention to their mistakes to everyone in the community. Its like singeling someone out in school infront of everyone so they feel more humilated, when talking to them privately would be a much more respectful way to solve the problem, and wouldnt cause so many hurt feelings.
Of course this is all my opinion, and others might not think there is a problem here, or that im being out of line. This is just what I am perceiving as a problem, nothing more. Im not trying to call anyone out, point fingers, or anything like that. I really love girlmom, im on here every single day as soon as I get up, and Ive found friends and gotten alot of support. I just wish that the community could be more cloose. Theres so much open disrespect and disdain for others, and a community that is pulled apart like that cant reach its full potential. I wish that with a little work this could really be a safe, loving, and supportive place, a haven. The potential is there, but its just not happening.
When I see a post that is offensive and hurtful to members, I'm not going to sit around and wait for an explanation. If people don't want to be called out they can #1 think about what they say before they post and not post offensive material in the first place or #2 not post at all (DON'T SAY ANYTHING IF YOU CAN'T SAY SOMETHING NICE).
This site here is for support and education for the most marginalized moms in society, and many times it's these same women whose feelings can be crushed over something that may mean nothing to another person. I don't plan on asking for clarification when a post is blatantly rude and disrespectful to other members.
I understand your points, but this isn't babycenter. I don't plan on allowing offensive stuff to slip by just because someone may not have meant what they said.
This site has a clear mission statement (linked in my signature line) and when people say things that are in contradiction to the mission statement or with disregard for the users of this site, it's our responsibility to say something.
When people get jumped on, it's about shit they say that is obviously offensive to more than just one person... It's not like people are just trying to be bullys or whatever. Everyone gets called out for something at one time or another. You just have to think about what you write before you post it.
Im not talking about the times when people are blatently out of line.
And even then, is it better to point out that they are saying something that is innapropriate in a respectful way, or to be facetious and rude?
Im not saying we should sugar coat everything, but a little respect goes a long way.
Notice that it usually starts with just a reminder that what they said may be offensive...but then when they try to argue about it THAT'S when some people tend to get rude. Because it's annoying when people can't just accept that what they said MAY be offensive to someone, they have to go on and on saying "Well why can't I say this and that"..There are guidelines on this site for a reason and if people can't follow them without a fucking hissy fit then of course some people are going to get annoyed with them and start getting rude. Also the reason I think so many people "jump" on them is not because they want to be mean, it's because they were also offended by what was said and they feel the need to express that. In case you haven't noticed, most of the women on this site are not the kind to sit back and take crap.
"Im not saying we should sugar coat everything, but a little respect goes a long way."
Which is what people are essentially asking for, when they call someone out, which is why this post is so ironic - you're asking us not to do what this post is doing (read: asking people to think before they speak). It seems to me that this thread is a huge fucking case of victim blaming, really. The fact of the matter is that if the person being called out hadn't said something potentially or blatantly hurtful in the first place, they wouldn't be called out and potentially hurt as a result. If you want to avoid being called out or "jumped on" then make sure your post doesn't hurt the very people you're asking for support from.
Im actually doing the exact opposit.. or ment too. Maybe I didnt make that clear or I said it wrong.
I do think people should think before they speak. But neither am I asking anyone to do it. I made sure that I stated in my post that this was just my perception of a problem and what I think could be done to change it, and that people may not agree with me in that. It was a suggestion.
I dont know what you mean by victim blaming though...
Okay so I think I figured out what you mean by victim blaming.
And I also think the entire point to my post was missed. I do not mean that we should let "anything go". I do not mean that if someone says something innapropriate we shouldnt say anything.
What I am trying to say is that when emotions are high and people get angry, its alot more productive to approach the situation in a positive or constructive way.
Responding in a way that humilates the other person, belittles them, or makes them hurt or angry, does nothing to make the situation better. Expecially if they did not have bad intentions.
All I am suggesting is that problems are delt with in a constructive way.
And to clarify..
It was not my intent to blame anyone. I am sorry if it was perceived like that, but I made very sure I did not call anyone out or make examples, or blame. I said I perceived there was a problem, (not that there is a problem that must be delt with) and I would appreciate it if people did not try and tell me what my point is or what I am saying, as I am the only person who knows whats in my head.
The problem with most of your idea's is that while they seem like they'd work on the outside, if we don't call people out in threads then the people reading who are agreeing with the offensive thing they said, goes untouched.
If we kindly say something in PM's only one person has the possibilty of unlearning, and this site is to help people unlearn.
When I was a mod here, we did the same thing and had the same posts like these, and it's always been decieded that people need to make a more conscious effort to think before they type things out, and to realize if they get called out it's for the good of the entire site.
Its not the calling out thats bad though... its calling out in a negative way. I dont think Im able to make my self understood. Maybe someone knows what im talking about.
alot of the time when it gets to the point of negativity though, it is becasue the person being called out just doesn't get it, and the people doing the calling out feel like they are beating there heads againist a brick wall.
I see your point Miss Kitty. Im sorry your post has been taken the wrong way :cry:
I also think that when somebodies hurt or offended it can sometimes be kind of hard to be positive and friendly. I think what you see is an expression of the emotion the person is feeling at the time. I think their is value in keeping things real. It's a genuine interation.
*interaction
Misskitty, you are 100% accurate with your post.
ive seen a lot of girls lately, being ragged on, for innocent enough sounding posts.
The one that botherd me the most, was one where a girl was talking about how happy she was in her relationship....and she was beaten down for it, because it seemed like she was bragging. Like I could understand, how maybe some of the things she said could be taken in the wrong light....but they werent what she meant to say...I could see that when I read the post, and I was like "hey, I will give her the benifit of the doubt....i post when I am tired, i sometimes type quicker than i am thinking....things come out wrong when im speaking all the time". ANd it turns out, I was right...she wasnt out to insult anyone. Most of the regular posters on this board arent posting to hurt anyone...so why not just give them a break, whne they slip up...yah know?
Besides, i really enjoy posting positive feedback, and help-ful remarks to people, a lot more than i do posting angry, or defensive ones. I dont want to fight with you girls..
In my opinion, calling out definetely needs to happen, in the thread, preferably in a respectful way, but one person should do so, then give the OP a chance to respond. If that response is "oh I'm sorry, I see why I shouldn't have said that" or "thats not what I meant to say, heres a clarification:" then it should be left at that. If the response is "thats ridiculous, what happened to free speech, etc", then post freely.
I think that "think before you post" is a great idea, but sometimes a person (especially one new to the site) truly didn't realise that what they said would be hurtful, and in this case, the person doesn't deserve to be jumped on. Called out yes, jumped on no, unless they react in a hostile way.
I don't like it that so many people at this site refrain from posting things because they are afraid to be jumped on.
I think though, that when others are agreeing with the OP that more then one calling out is acceptable. Just MHO though, like I've said before it is alot EASIER to suggest things and live in a world where you aren't responible for making them happen, and maintaining a site that is what it is here for marginalized mothers.
Anyways, about the
MANY women on the website were hurt and/or offended by said thread. Whether the intention is there or not, she hurt and offended, then other more long term members told her she was right in what she had to say... pretty shitty if you ask me.
That post was one of the examples of needing to think before you post shit...
yes, and thank you for the example.
Just because it doesnt offend you, doesnt mean it doesnt offend anyone. I feel like crap when someone says that my right man will come along and not to worry. Obviously most people dont mean to insult, they end up doing it indirectly. Thats where unlearning comes in. Thats a lot of what this site is based around. It sucks when you hear stuff like that all the time irl and then you come here, hoping for a break just to hear the exact same thing. You react.
OOO I totally agree with thinking before you post....
But, hey accidents happen, yah know??? And the original poster apologized soo many times, and people were still going on about it.
Thinking before you do is a great policy, but we all fuck up sometimes right???
Remember that post about the Mom who left her child in the car, and a lot of other mamas got upset when we called her a bad mom for making a bad choice...when we dont kow why she did what she did??? Same thing. Instead of attacking a person because she makes one slip up...we should stop and think about what she meant by what she said....and the intention was not to hurt anyone, so why...after shes apologized like three times, still go on about it..
Im a big fan of putting the "trigger" before you post. This site should be open to everything we have to say...if you dont like the topic, or if you are sensitive...dont read...putting trigger before the post helps a lot....maybe that would have helped in that situation...i dunno.
but your theory doesn't make much sense when you are the one that posted that you agreed with her, and that you were so lucky as well, when the OP had already been called out by ONLY ONE PERSON....
Umm, people went on about it BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHERE PIPING IN ON HOW LUCKY THEY WERE TOO, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS SAID TO OFFEND, OBVIOUSLY YOU DIDN'T GET IT, OR JUST DIDN'T CARE, THAT'S WHY
No no,
the problem they were having with that poster, was that she said "too all those who are looking for someone-dont worry, you will find them" or something like that, which made it sound like the only way to be happy in life, would be if you found a man.
I never said MY way was the RIGHT way. I said I was happy with my boyfriend. And how hes really made my life more enjoyable. You know what, theres absolutly no where in the mission statement stating that we cant talk about what makes our life better. I wasnt being condecending, i was JUST relating to the poster....who obviously was not getting any support from anyone else....
JEEZ..why cant we all just be happy that shes happy with her place in life??
Apologies have been made....no one wanted to hurt anyone....next time, lets make sure that theres a trigger for other mamas who might be sensitve to the subject....but really, there was no intentional harm done...soo why hurt eachother, and yell at eachother???
I apologize if I offended anyone, I really just meant to stand up for someone, who was getting ragged on...I really didnt want to hurt anyones feeling at all, k?
I don't disagree with calling someone out for saying things that are offensive or against the mission statement, but I do have a problem with people conitinuing to hound them and blast them and put them down after they have apologized and realized they were in the wrong with their remarks.
In situations like that, such as the post on the relationship forum about the happily partnered girlmom, maybe the mods could lock the thread so that no one can continue to slam the poor girl after she has already apologized?
I know I've been in a situation on here where I didn't think before posting and let my initial emotions get the better of me. I apologized, but continued to get screamed at for what I had written. I just didn't post anything else on the thread after I had apologized, but I sure felt like crap when I'd read what everyone was still saying about me.
LISA
no one is slamming that "poor girl" in fact if you go look at all the other posts after she apologized most of them are like thank you for apologizing, and then addressing other issues...
ok i just wanted to point something out.. dont attack me either. i agree with ONE person calling someone out.. not the whole damn community. also about the mama being happy about her relationship..
ok so because she is happy with her SO and some of us "claim to be happy being single and what not" then LET HER BE HAPPY! dont jump on her and critize her for being happy. she was just saying she was happy because she has someone who will love her, and be there for her and her child(ren). who are any of you to take that happiness away from her? we are here to support in GOOD AND BAD. look around, all everyone posts about are bad things most of the time.. be happy for people. we may not all have alot of advantages and we may be struggling, but when something good happens, dont be so damn negative about it. when something good happens to you, do you want someone to be like OMG UR RUBBING IT IN OUR FACE! OMG UR SO RUDE! OMG HOW DARE YOU! step back and check yourselves. we are a community to support teen moms who are struggling with life, school, mamahood, relationships etc. so lets start supporting each other thru thick and thin. ALOT of mamas dont want to post saying how everyone is being attacked because hey they will be attacked for saying anything. how about we do 1 person calling out instead of the same 2-3. i can understand if someone is being rude and that is the intent, then yeah jump on em like you do to everyone else, but when someone says hey i messed up im sorry, or damn i didnt see it that way im sorry.. then stop the damn attack. we all have different views on things, we will never see eye to eye on EVERYTHING.. accept everyone is different from you and may not have the same opinion as you.. so yeah i already know the same 2-3 posters will be attacking me for this post, but you know what, it needed to be said. for all those mamas who feel they cant post due to being attacked, im really sorry you feel that way in such a "SAFE" community.
Thankyou freeangel so much for sharing your feelings.
Its situations like this I am talking about. It hurts, she didnt mean it, she appologized, and she was still receiving hostile remarks.
I talk to alot of GM's on msn and quite a few of them have told me they feel attacked or that what other people have said was way out of line and unnessicary, but they are afraid to post and contridict people because they are afraid of being attackted, jumped on, or told they are stupid. I dont think you should be having people feeling like this..
The problem with that Nicole is that people were offended and like i've said BEFORE AND WILL SAY AGAIN FOR THE TENTH DAMN TIME, when someone is offended at this site, the person is called out, if other people jump on board with the OP and say they aren't offended TOO FUCKING BAD, cause the majority outweigh the miniorty EVERY TIME, and the majority of people WERE offended, whether or not they spoke up is an entirely different thing...
Being a mod here for 2 years I figured out ALOT of things on this site. One of which is that as a mod, or even a loud voice on the site you get alot of pm's directing you to threads that people want you to voice your opinion in, because they don't feel like they can for whatever reason, be it they don't feel elquent or whatever, but the fact remains that if the silent majority is offended it will be called out, and it will be discussed whether the people who want to act like "it wasn't a big deal" want to start new threads to complain or not.
People starting threads to complain about the way the site is run is nothing new. I've been here for 3.5 years now, 2 of that under alot of attack as a "mod" because we did this, or didn't do that, but you know what? This site is here and you get this support cause of the people behind the scenses making sure you don't have to see all the bullshit and that people who can be taught are given the chance to unlearn.
People just need to think about things before they post them. If she had come on here and said, hey I am happy that I have a SO who loves me, I wouldnt have a problem with that. But its when someone comes here and flaunts their privledge that makes me mad. And also the remark about how her bd is so excellent because he watched the kid, gimme a break. I hear that all the time about my bd (before he was locked up :roll: ) "oh he is a good dad, look he watches Eric every once in a while when you work , and one time Eric pooped all over his clothes and he changed his whole outfit! Oh joy! oh glee! What a great person, he deserves a medal!" There is an obvious difference between those two. I'm sorry that some girl moms feel like they are going to get jumped on when they post. I dont really know how that feels because almost every time I post something I recieve help, sympathy, etc where needed. A few times I have been called out, it happens to everyone. And then when that happens, I say sorry, not give an explaination or a reason, but just, sorry i was wrong. I didnt mean to offend everyone. And then you know what? I move on. Getting called out happens.
If people feel this way, why don't they ever PM mods or the mod_squad? Or like, bring it up ever? And you know what, GirlMom has been way more "call out-ish" in the past and the way it's gone about now it practically trivial compared to 2+ years ago.
In the thread in relationships, there was more than just the original poster chiming in about how wonderful her life was, and how she thought the OP's comments were okay. By the end of the thread, people (INCLUDING MYSELF) were saying "thanks for apologizing" and then directing other comments toward the other things in the thread that needed to be addressed. Should I just shut my mouth because we were beating a dead horse? Sorry, but I'm a mod here for a reason and I am not gonna sit on my ass when things need to be said, whether it feels like I'm beating a dead horse or not.
I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here but I am still responding because things need to be said. This site isn't here to tiptoe around details and offensive posts.
You think I've never been called out before? I have, and I felt like crap. I didn't feel like crap because of what the otehr people said but because I had XYZ opinions in the first place! We have to remember where our emotions should be directed and it usually isn't at each other.
Tricia, that is fine. i totally agree if people are offended, but do you really think it is positive to freak out 500 times on one person who said they're sorry after they origionally posted? if others agree with that OP then they agree. like i said we all have different views and you freaking out on someone, isnt going to change that, your going to silence them and make them feel like dirt. yeah no one should be hurting anyone on this site, but maybe try a more productive way instead of freaking. if you scream at a child, do you think they will feel great? no they will be hurt and sad.. if you wouldnt do that to your child, why would you do it to another human being? we are all humans, and we make mistakes but really, taker easy. im sure mods do alot to keep this site going but give a little bit more and be pleasant to people, and that will go a long way. i thank all the mods for doing what they do, this is a great site, but i sure as hell dont feel safe replying to some posts because of certain members who feel its their right to freak on EVERYONE who posts.
SO IT'S FUCKING OK FOR THEM TO SILENCE THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, BUT GOD FORBID I SAY SOMETHING TO HELP THE PEOPLE FEELING SILENCED. GOD IT'S LIKE BEATING MY HEAD AGAINST A BRICK WALL. IT'S COMMON FUCKING SENSE PEOPLE, COMMON FUCKING SENSE.
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