New Native Products

[quote="naivete"]To use the stereotype that Native Americans are mythical, and deeply connected, and one-with-nature creatures, to promote products is absolutely no different then using offensive stereotypes to promote a product[/quote] I don't want to hijack this thread, but I've noticed a commercial that uses Native American culture to sell some arthritis pills. I forget what the actual brand is, but in the commerical anyone who buys the product is seen wearing stereotypical Native clothing. I've seen this stuff in Shoppers drugmart and was incredibly disgusted that they would use the stereotypical image of Native Americans to sell a product.

Ya that's the product I was talking about. It just boggles my mind how they get away with stuff like this.

[quote="naivete"]So tell me, those of you who love New Native products: Whether or not the product is quality, why would you support and endorse a company that uses cultural stereotypes to sell their product?[/quote] I've never used them so I don't endorse them. I would rather support a WAHM than a big corperation anyday. With that said- I honestly thought "New Native" was an easier way to carry babies than any of our (like all culturally) ancestors had. There are several baby carriers that are indiginous to certain people groups. The Maya Wrap is one, there's another that is based on the African culture (I can't remember the name!), and my favorite the Mei Tai is an asian carrier. If Natives actually carry their babies this way- I don't have an issue with the name itself (I am part native- I'm not saying you should not be offended- simply offering my view.) I don't like the spiel on their website about Native people though- pretty inappropriate. So I don't have an issue with the name, if that's how Native Peoples carry their babies, but I do with the marketing.

Yeah, it is a nasty marketing ploy, and I'm really glad you are bringing this up. We've really got to stand up against essentializations like that. here is their e-mail-- info@newnativebaby.com (I hope that goes through to a person, not a bot) I just realized they are based in my home town.

I guess I am confused. I could very well be missing the part on their website where they say anything about native people. I am looking now, but I have not found anything. I have also emailed the company for their take on the matter, myself. While I am not Native American, I do hold a B.A. in cultural anthropology and I would in no way want to contribute to the glorification of any particular culture in the way in which you speak. That being said, I still have not found anything on their website that seems to show this. I am assuming that (or at least I always did) they are talking about "native" cultures in general, not Native Americans. When I think of "natives", the first thing I think of is women I have come in contact with from West Africa, who DO carry their babies in this way. There are many populations that could be considered "native". No, not exactly like this sling, but once again, I always assumed that it was the "new" native carrier...a new version of an old and healthy (not to mention practical) practice. The information that I have found on the site shows me that they are doing many things that are good. This big corporation did not start out anything more than a mother needing something to carry her child in inventing it http://www.newnativebaby.com/press.asp (that is something I would like to support, and if it has gotten big for her, well then fantastic!) They seem to treat their workers well and have some socially and environmentally responsible practices. (one of the reasons I tried this sling in the first place was that it was 100% organic) http://www.newnativebaby.com/aboutus.asp All of that being said, I would really appreciate someone pointing out where the statement about "native people" is on their website is though, in case I am missing it. If I am wrong about this company then I would obviously like to know. From what I see though, it looks pretty good. I loved my carrier and I would be very sad if these things are true about them. Like I said though, they seem like they are pretty with it to me.

I just called their line and when I asked why they were called new native...the answer that I got was nothing like the accusations I am seeing here. The answer that I got was basically what I just said, that in many "native" cultures...which could be anywhere in the world, not necessarily native americans....had a practice of carrying their children around for most of the day and through the first several years. This is true, as I said in many of the native tribes in Africa as well as in south america and in many native american cultures as well. They may not have all had a sling like this one, but many did have something quite similar, and there was a general practice of strapping that baby to your body, in some fashion. So, the folks at New Native told me that they were promoting attachment parenting as a healthy way to bring up baby. Nothing more. I have not seen any evidence thus far that there is anything that I need to be disturbed by. I loved their product and I appreciate the values listed on their site. I was fed nothing about Native Americans being mythical creatures or anything like that. I would still be interested in hearing any other info any one has though. I will let you know what I get in my email when I get it back.

theres definatly some native cultures up here who have baby-carrying, specifically cree and inut (see http://www.jacquelinejimmink.com/bambigioi/italiaans/html/aboutcarrying.html). a lot of young mamas around my neighbourhood have been using them in the past couple of winters (inuit and cree mamas). that said ive never seen anything on that sight. and regardless of what their intentions are (native = natural?) its is capitalizing on the romantisized veiw of native cultures traditional connection with the earth, blah blah blah. if it was about being natural and practical and didnt include cultural appropriation, she could have named it anything else. i have a similar problem with maya wraps name, cause yes while mayan peoples did use slings traditionally, hey your people wiped out their traditional lifestyle and slaughtered them as a people and continue to opress them today through us funding of fucked up fascist white governments in south america. you dont get to pick the parts you think were 'nice' or 'natural' and use a whole peoples name to promote your product. its annoying. i don know if youve been to the states cristi, but the situation with native folks down there is quite a bit different then up here. theres alot less of people in cities and they have this hard core romantisization thing going on. like people asked me if i could give them spirit names regularily... hard to tell whats worse, getting romantisized after your ancesetors were killed with small pox blankets or getting spit on and thrown out of stores. if this (white) lady really did think about issues in a positive way she maybe could have come up with a different name? or maybe write why she chose that name and why its not messed up on her site?

grr part of that came out wrong. i thinnk maya wraps policies seem pretty awesome, and if theyre comfy for you and your babe, thats awesome. ive carried babies in them and its gold to still be able to use both your hands. it just bugs me seeing non-native owned companies profitting off of the names of other nations, especially ones their governemnt have had a hand in breaking down, yknow?

I'm Jewish, and of Jewish heritage. I'm often told that I and my family "fit" some person's idea of a "Jew," we're intellectual, engaged in the fine arts, and my parents are wealthy. These comments are always followed by "It's a [i]good[/i] thing!" No, no it's not. ANY stereotyping of any kind is, in the long run or in the short run, detrimental to those being stereotyped. Many other cultures baby-wear. If a white woman were to set up a company selling "African" Baby Slings, waxing on about how much she "respects" the "African" way of life, would that be acceptable?

My grandmother is Pomo and she says babies were traditionaly carried in baskets or something called a "cradleboard" made with animal skins & tree branches. There is alot more than the backhanded generalizations that creep me out about that site..... http://www.newnativebaby.com/friendsofbonding.asp

I'm so sick of assumptions and generalisations and the fact tht people who aren't native think they can say it's not offensive. I'm sorry there are so many stupid and offensive corporations/people out there. Racism as a marketing ploy, charming, I don't know what's more fucked up, that they use it or that it works.

I'm confused as to what they mean by "native" Do they mean Native American or do they just mean native in the general sense as in a : constituting the original substance or source b : found in nature especially in an unadulterated form. Since baby wearing is so primitive and natural and basic, I always thought native was referring to those aspects. I didn't even consider the ethnic implications.

[quote="candy-eyed"]I'm confused as to what they mean by "native" Do they mean Native American or do they just mean native in the general sense as in a : constituting the original substance or source b : found in nature especially in an unadulterated form. Since baby wearing is so primitive and natural and basic, I always thought native was referring to those aspects. I didn't even consider the ethnic implications.[/quote] Naivete emailed them, I assume because she was also curious about their meaning and/or intentions. From their reply: [quote]"Native cultures have a deep connection to the Earth and show a reverance and harmony that we seem to have lost..."[/quote] it seems pretty obvious that the company intends to capitalize on the stereotypes about native cultures. Stereotyping aculture is not okay- thats the point.

as non-north american mother, I have noticed in my outsider perspective tht racism towards Native americans (and commodifying someones culture & identity is racism) seemed to fly under non-Native folk's radar. Like the old substitute Native for another race in the example then you'll realise its racism trick.. sadly it's still needed to spell it out to folks. I live in the southern hemisphere yet I know the company is refering to Native americans, and capitalising on that. There is no excuse for pleading ignorance when you're on standing on Native american land. The word 'native' has racist/colonial implications down here so wouldn't appear on a product. Marketers are a canny bunch. They know what they're selling or alluding to selling. Would there be products called 'New Negro'? Why do I have to even ask...

[quote="maja"]There is no excuse for pleading ignorance when you're on standing on Native american land.[/quote] Good. Fucking. Point.

Look, all I was saying was that I don't see any of that stuff on their site. I have never seen this email. I understand what you are saying about stereotypes and to some degree, I agree. I don't care which carriers you all use and I still don't see anything out right and obviously oppressive etc on their site. I have still been given no other proof. Perhaps with all of my research background I just can't believe anything without proof. I was not tying to disprove YOU, I was trying to get to the bottom of it because, as I said before, I don't want to be glorifying any cultural group through my purchases. That being said, with what very little evidence I have seen, I think that there are many more battles that are out there that need to be fought. Once again, if I had some real reason to think anything else, then I would accept it and stop using their products immediately. I am not trying to hurt anyone, or be mean or rude or anything else, I am just trying to find out the truth. And honestly at this point I don't care anymore. Still, if you have something else...something on the site that talks about something other than the need to wear babies closely etc, then please let me know. Also, this email....did you ever consider that perhaps you got someone who doesn't know what they are talking about? I certainly did when I got my answer on the phone. I don't know what the truth is. I have no idea. and just because I am not native american myself does not mean that I cannot understand oppression and horrid stereotypes.

What you just posted was disrespectful towards the woman this offended and very racist. You cannot understand firsthand the opression that comes with being native american and to brush off what someone feels is prejudiced is horrible. No battle needs to be fought more than one that takes on the companies that someone feels are racist (or prejudiced in any way) toward their people. You are invalidating naivete's feelings and hurt in being portrayed a certain way and to accuse her of lying about the email they sent her is really off. The truth is that someone in this company offended a native american by using an untrue racial stereotype toward them, that should be enough.

[quote="photomum"]I have still been given no other proof. Perhaps with all of my research background I just can't believe anything without proof.[/quote] How about the fact that the actual products are being marketed using an untrue Native American stereotype? Isn't that proof enough? Telling Naivete that she shouldn't feel oppressed? Who are you to say that?

No proof? How about their bloody name? Like maja said, can you imagine a line called New Negro? I don't think so. Exotification is exploitation and it is unacceptable. I am glad it doesn't bother you. :roll:

[quote="photomum"] and just because I am not native american myself does not mean that I cannot understand oppression and horrid stereotypes.[/quote] It doesn't mean you can't have empathy or be an ally, no. I find it disrespectful to say you understand exactly where a person who is Native American is coming from or the oppression and persecution they and their families have had to endure. Especially when you can't even open you mind to see that a company would use a stereotype to sell a product.

Photomum, if you search for the word Privilege in any forum on GM, I think you would stumble on some good reading material. You need to recognize what Your privilege(s) is in this situation. I think Naivete explained it pretty clearly.

I never said it didn't bother me. I never meant to imply that I could completely understand what anyone but myself is. That was the wrong wording to use there and I do apologize. I am really on the same side here. I am sorry that my posts came out in a way that offended ANYONE. Yes, they have a shitty name. And yes, I am going to think twice about using them or recommending them to other mama's again. In fact I probably won't, at least not until I can get a grasp on the situation. I was not trying to imply that anyone was lying at all. I simply meant that I did not have this email, and I don't know the person who wrote this original post, so it would be rather stupid of me to take what she said without researching it for myself. Not that she was wrong, not that she was lying at all. I was also looking for someone to point me in some direction that showed this exploitation of native americans on the website. I don't see it and I would like to know where, because I want to make up my own mind and have something to share with others when I am telling them not to buy this product. I see nothing on their site showing that this is in any way pointed at native americans. I'm not saying that they should use the term native in reference to anything, but I don't see native americans on this site and I don't see it in their picture logo. If anything I am going to be upset because they are using the term native in general and, then there are people all over the world that are being glorified here. Anyway, I am having a hard time getting everything out. Basically, I was pushing for info because I want to know for myself, I am on your side, I just want to know the truth for myself, not just because someone I don't even know, says so. THat is all. Once again I am sorry that I offended. It was not my intention.

[i]If anything I am going to be upset because they are using the term native in general and, then there are people all over the world that are being glorified here. [/i] Including Native Americans.

Photomum, you can't tell someone how they have been oppressed or how someone you be offended in any form. You have never been there, I think what naivete posted was clear and I agree on how stereotyping can be offensive and hurtful, I totally agree with her. Several posts on here have explained how that website & their products can hurt someone or offend them. And yes, maybe you didn't TRY to offend anyone on here, but you did. Honestly and I think that reading what naivete wrote about it and not trying to question in her in how she felt is not cool. I don't know what it's like to be oppressed in that way, but I can totally see where she is coming from. It's not cool to try to invalidate someone's feelings on how they feel oppressed.

I was not trying to invalidate the way she felt, I was merely asking for documentation. I have visited their web site and I do not see any of the things that she has said are on there. PLEASE tell me where they are if they are on there. I am not trying to say that I understand any particular oppression (as I said in my last post) I can only empathize. All I have heard is people telling me that I am being offensive and ignorant rather than backing anything up with solid anything. From the actual, solid information I have (and I have asked for it from anyone here if they have something that differs) from the website and the contact I have had with the company I see no glorification of any culture. I see no use of Native Americans as mascots here and I see nothing degrading (once again, show me some quotes, give me a web page that directly shows this) or racist about it. I believe that the use of the word "native" [i]can[/i] be derogitory--but it also depends on the context. Once again, in the INFORMATION I HAVE I see the word refering to native, indigenous cultures and the practice of keeping their children close to them for many years. It has proven to be a healthy and natural way to raise children, which I know many people on here agree with. But that is the only thing I see being promoted on this website. I see nothing refering to Native Americans at all, anywhere. I am not calling anyone a liar, but I can only comment on the facts before me. The facts that I have dug up and the website that I have read through. I don't have this email that is being refered to. I refuse to unjustly accuse anyone of anything based on something someone [i]said[/i]. I do not agree with Native Americans or any other group being used as mascots or to sell products, I just don't see that this site is doing these things. Once again, I don't see ANYTHING refering to Native Americans AT ALL. While I do not believe in the glorification of any group, or racism or degrading stereotypes I also do not believe in laying blame where it doesn't belong. Innocent until proven guilty isn't it? I see no one offering me any thing at all except for a bad name? Which is negotiable? Is it being used in a bad context? Perhaps I would choose something different if it was me, but in the way that they have explained themselved on their site and to me on the phone, I don't see the things being accused. I do not see anything in their logo, or pic with the logo that shows anything [i]native american [/i]at all. If anyone can show me something concrete rather than attacking me, then I would be glad to hear it. I meant no offense to the poster. I was not questioning her [i]feelings[/i], I was questioning whether this company has actually done anything unethical. Perhaps they have, I am not saying that they haven't/ I am only saying that I have yet to see it. Until that time I am done with this thread. It has turned into an uneducated, finger pointing session and I refuse to be involved with anything less than a well argued, well supported, mature discussion. Haven't you ever heard of citing your sources? It is so others can check it out and make sure that it is true. I cannot check someones personal email and see for myself. I can not hold this up in a converstion with someone else because, I have nothing to base it on. Once again, I was not intending to offend anyone. I only want to get to the bottom of this because it interests me as a consumer and as a mother, as well as a social scientist. It seems that no one can offer anything to back it up though and that is all I want. I do not represent the company, I am not claiming that they are innocent, it could very well be true. I just want to know for myself and make an educated conclusion.

[quote="photomum"]I see no glorification of any culture. I see no use of Native Americans as mascots here and I see nothing degrading (once again, show me some quotes, give me a web page that directly shows this) or racist about it.[/quote] I think Naivete specifically said that this was about an email she had received. It is in the email that is your so called "proof."